[General] (no subject)

Mon Jan 25 13:21:28 PST 2016

Hi Wolfgang

Here are some thoughts about this centripetal force…

For the sake of argument, let us assume that light is quantized into photons.  And let us assume that each photon has a spin angular momentum of ħ. Light which comes in groups of photons then could be superposed due to the NIW principal we mentioned above.

So from these assumptions we can create a simple one wavelength model of a photon. We know that photons can be more than one wavelength long, but for simplicity we will explore the one wavelength photon. We know the forward momentum of a photon is:   In order for the photon to have a spin angular momentum of ħ and a frequency of  we can calculate the photon’s effective spin radius. First we get the wavelength: 

We know our photon model makes one revolution in one wavelength which gives the photon its frequency. So we also know that the effective radius is the wavelength divided by two times π. 

So suggests a model for a photon which has a radius of  and a forward momentum of  Let us try out this model, and construct a gamma photon using the energy of the electron.  The energy of our photon is therefore 8.1871E-14 J. So its frequency is: Hz.  

Which yields a wavelength of: 

That makes the effective spin radius of this photon: 

The forward momentum of this photon would then be: 

And the calculated angular momentum would be:  

We now have a spin one ħ photon model which displays the known and anticipated values for such a photon.

However there is one piece of this photon model that we have not yet addressed.  That is the force required to cause the energy of this photon to spiral through space at the effective spin radius we have suggested. In order for energy traveling at c and with the momentum: 

To circulate around a radius of  

We would need a confinement force for this energetic gamma photon of:

This is an incredibly strong force.  Can this be a real force? If such a force actually exists in nature wouldn’t we be able to see the effects of this force in many different experiments?

Let us explore that possibility a bit further.  We will start by comparing this speculative force to the electric force at this radius:

And 

So that:   and the fine structure constant is α.

So this speculative confinement force is of exactly the same magnitude as the well-known Strong Nuclear force. We know that the electric force is weaker than the Strong Nuclear force by the factor α. So this confinement force we have speculated, and partially defined, could well be another manifestation of the Strong Force.

Chip

From: General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of Wolfgang Baer
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:44 PM
To: general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
Subject: Re: [General] (no subject)

Does this not all start with the E=mc^2 energy mass equivalence postulate?
A moving photon has energy therefore mass , if the wave is confined to a circular path the mass could be considered stationary
The equations can all be manipulated to come up with various quantities and interpretations.

What to me is problematic is the centrifugal forces. What balances the tremendous outward pull?
An electron only has charge that repels, and now centrifugal forces, what holds it all together?

Wolf

Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com <mailto:wolf at NascentInc.com> 

On 1/25/2016 8:33 AM, Albrecht Giese wrote:

Dear Richard,

you know that I object to your derivation of inertial mass. You deduce it from momentum. That is mathematically possible by using the known relations. But it is not logical in so far as momentum depends on inertia. In a world without inertia there would be no momentum.

So we have to explain first the mechanism of inertia itself, then we can derive the momentum and the inertial mass.

Best
Albrecht

Am 24.01.2016 um 20:42 schrieb Richard Gauthier:

Hello Vladimir and Chandra and all,

  Yes, I definitely support the idea of the ether as material space, and that all physical particles are derived from this ether. This ether can also be called a plenum or Cosmic Tension Field.

   I don’t however think that it is necessary to explain the inertial mass of particles in relation to a "coefficient of inertia” or "the amount of momentum the ether resists." I have shown (https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia ) by a very simple derivation that the inertial mass m of an electron may be derived from the momentum of the circling photon in a circulating-photon model of the electron, whose circling photon has momentum mc where m = Eo/c^2 = hf/c^2 ,  where Eo is the rest energy 0.511 MeV of the electron and f is the frequency of the circulating photon in the resting electron. Secondly, in a similar way I derived a linearly moving photon's inertial mass to be M-inertial = hf/c^2 , where f is the photon’s frequency, even though a photon has zero rest mass. Thirdly, I derived the inertial mass of a relativistic electron, whose momentum is p=gamma mv, to be  M-inertial = gamma m , even though the moving electron's rest mass is m.  

   I present these  derivations below, taken from the academia.edu <http://academia.edu>  session on my electron inertia article at https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link :

"One reason people don’t think that a photon has any inertial mass (because it has no rest mass) is that how do you get a photon to change its momentum (i.e. accelerate) in order to measure its inertial mass. It can’t go faster or slower than c in a vacuum, so it can’t accelerate in a linear direction, and in normal physics a photon doesn’t follow a curved path (except with gravity), which would make it possible to measure its centripetal acceleration c^2/R . But as I showed in my short electron inertia article at https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia <https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_%20th%0A%20e_Elect%0A%0Arons_Inertia>  , the electron model in a resting electron has the photon going in a circle, with momentum mc and speed c, and the electron's inertial mass is then calculated to be M-inertial =(dp/dt)/Acentrifugal =wmc/(c^2/r)= m which is the inertial mass of the electron. But this calculation of the circling charged photon's inertial mass is independent of the radius of the charged photon’s circular orbit. Let that circular radius go towards infinity and you get a photon traveling in essentially a straight line, still having its inertial mass M =hf/c^2 (where the photon frequency f decreases as the radius of the circle increases) . So according to this logic, a linearly moving photon DOES have inertial mass M-inertial =hf/c^2 even though a photon has zero rest mass. And when a relativistic electron with momentum p=gamma mv travels in a circle with speed v, the inertial mass calcul ation ab ove gives M -in ertial = gamma m for a circling relativistic electron, and not just m the electron’s rest mass . Extending the radius here towards infinity also gives a linearly moving electron an inertial mass M = gamma m and not just the electron's rest mass m."

      As far as I know these are all original derivations of the inertial mass of a resting electron, a photon and a relativistic electron based on a circulating photon model of an electron. I would be pleased to be shown otherwise.

  Richard

On Jan 24, 2016, at 6:42 AM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra <chandra.roychoudhuri at uconn.edu <mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri at uconn.edu> > wrote:

Yes, Vlad, that is also my viewpoint.

I do not remember whether I have attached this paper while communicating with you earlier. I call the “plenum” Cosmic Tension Field (CTF), to be descriptive in its essential properties.

Chandra.

From: General [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of Vladimir Tamari
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 7:00 PM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] (no subject)

Hi Richard 

I barge into your discussion without knowing your views on a "plenum field" but if it is an ether I definitely think there is one. A "coefficent of inertia" might be defined as the amount of momentum the ether resists. In a charged or gravitational field this coefficent would increase...I think of this in terms of my Beautiful Universe ether of dielectric nodes, except this may give the wrong idea it is something matter wades in.. not so. Matter and ether are made if the selfsame nodes of energy!

Cheers

Vladimir

_____________________

 <http://vladimirtamari.com/> vladimirtamari.com

On Jan 21, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Richard Gauthier <richgauthier at gmail.com <mailto:richgauthier at gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi Hodge,

    I don’t remember asking that. But if I did, I’m glad the question was helpful.

   I’m thinking about inertia these days. Do you or others have any insights about its nature?

         Richard

On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Hodge John <jchodge at frontier.com <mailto:jchodge at frontier.com> > wrote:

Richard Gauthier:

You asked if the galaxy redshift, Pioneer anomaly, Pound--Rebka experiment model had a velocity term. I looked at redshift data for 1 galaxy and found no indication of a velocity term.

I had not noticed this in the equations. Your suggestion that the plenum field can look like the Higgs field seems valid. That is, the acceleration of the plenum field looks like it adds energy (mass) is a Higgs Field characteristic. Thus, the plenum is closer to the idea of a quantum field and Higgs field (weak force).

Thanks for the insight.

Hodge

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