[General] (no subject)
Albrecht Giese
genmail at a-giese.de
Tue Jan 26 05:24:39 PST 2016
Hi Chip,
light has also inertia. If a photon is reflected from a mirror, it
applies a force to the mirror. That is inertia. And in this way it also
transfers momentum to it.
Momentum is a specific application of inertia, nothing else. In fact,
inertial mass and momentum are the same physical phenomenon. Why do the
physicists use different names for this phenomenon? It has a simple
reason which is very common in physics. In history, physical quantities
have got importance to the humans in the moment when there appears a
conservation of that quantity at an interaction. If we now look at
inertia, then we observe conservation. In some instances we observe
conservation at an application, which we call "momentum", and in some
other applications we observe conservation of "mass". This is the
background for these two different uses of the same physical phenomenon.
What is energy? That is also a notion which was invented because
conservation was observed. Nothing more fundamental, as I believe.
Albrecht
Am 25.01.2016 um 22:13 schrieb Chip Akins:
>
> Hi Albrecht
>
> But light has momentum. Perhaps momentum is fundamentally the cause
> of inertia, and therefore more fundamental than inertia.
>
> We do not just see momentum from material objects but also from energy
> propagating through space.
>
> So I think you may have it backwards.
>
> Chip
>
> *From:*General
> [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Albrecht Giese
> *Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2016 10:34 AM
> *To:* general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org; Richard Gauthier
> <richgauthier at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [General] (no subject)
>
> Dear Richard,
>
> you know that I object to your derivation of inertial mass. You deduce
> it from momentum. That is mathematically possible by using the known
> relations. But it is not logical in so far as momentum depends on
> inertia. In a world without inertia there would be no momentum.
>
> So we have to explain first the mechanism of inertia itself, then we
> can derive the momentum and the inertial mass.
>
> Best
> Albrecht
>
> Am 24.01.2016 um 20:42 schrieb Richard Gauthier:
>
> Hello Vladimir and Chandra and all,
>
> Yes, I definitely support the idea of the ether as material
> space, and that all physical particles are derived from this
> ether. This ether can also be called a plenum or Cosmic Tension Field.
>
> I don’t however think that it is necessary to explain the
> inertial mass of particles in relation to a "coefficient of
> inertia” or "the amount of momentum the ether resists." I have
> shown
> (https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia )
> by a very simple derivation that the inertial mass m of an
> electron may be derived from the momentum of the circling photon
> in a circulating-photon model of the electron, whose circling
> photon has momentum mc where m = Eo/c^2 = hf/c^2 , where Eo is
> the rest energy 0.511 MeV of the electron and f is the frequency
> of the circulating photon in the resting electron. Secondly, in a
> similar way I derived a linearly moving photon's inertial mass to
> be M-inertial = hf/c^2 , where f is the photon’s frequency, even
> though a photon has zero rest mass. Thirdly, I derived the
> inertial mass of a relativistic electron, whose momentum is
> p=gamma mv, to be M-inertial = gamma m , even though the moving
> electron's rest mass is m.
>
> I present these derivations below, taken from the academia.edu
> <http://academia.edu> session on my electron inertia article at
> https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link :
>
> "One reason people don’t think that a photon has any inertial mass
> (because it has no rest mass) is that how do you get a photon to
> change its momentum (i.e. accelerate) in order to measure its
> inertial mass. It can’t go faster or slower than c in a vacuum, so
> it can’t accelerate in a linear direction, and in normal physics a
> photon doesn’t follow a curved path (except with gravity), which
> would make it possible to measure its centripetal acceleration
> c^2/R . But as I showed in my short electron inertia article at
> https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia
> <https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_th%20e_Elect%0Arons_Inertia>
> , the electron model in a resting electron has the photon going in
> a circle, with momentum mc and speed c, and the electron's
> inertial mass is then calculated to be M-inertial
> =(dp/dt)/Acentrifugal =wmc/(c^2/r)= m which is the inertial mass
> of the electron. But this calculation of the circling charged
> photon's inertial mass is independent of the radius of the charged
> photon’s circular orbit. Let that circular radius go towards
> infinity and you get a photon traveling in essentially a straight
> line, still having its inertial mass M =hf/c^2 (where the photon
> frequency f decreases as the radius of the circle increases) . So
> according to this logic, a linearly moving photon DOES have
> inertial mass M-inertial =hf/c^2 even though a photon has zero
> rest mass. And when a relativistic electron with momentum p=gamma
> mv travels in a circle with speed v, the inertial mass calculation
> above gives M -in ertial = gamma m for a circling relativistic
> electron, and not just m the electron’s rest mass . Extending the
> radius here towards infinity also gives a linearly moving electron
> an inertial mass M = gamma m and not just the electron's rest mass m."
>
> As far as I know these are all original derivations of the
> inertial mass of a resting electron, a photon and a relativistic
> electron based on a circulating photon model of an electron. I
> would be pleased to be shown otherwise.
>
> Richard
>
> On Jan 24, 2016, at 6:42 AM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra
> <chandra.roychoudhuri at uconn.edu
> <mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri at uconn.edu>> wrote:
>
> Yes, Vlad, that is also my viewpoint.
>
> I do not remember whether I have attached this paper while
> communicating with you earlier. I call the “plenum” Cosmic
> Tension Field (CTF), to be descriptive in its essential
> properties.
>
> Chandra.
>
> *From:*General
> [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]*On
> Behalf Of*Vladimir Tamari
> *Sent:*Saturday, January 23, 2016 7:00 PM
> *To:*Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
> *Subject:*Re: [General] (no subject)
>
> Hi Richard
>
> I barge into your discussion without knowing your views on a
> "plenum field" but if it is an ether I definitely think there
> is one. A "coefficent of inertia" might be defined as the
> amount of momentum the ether resists. In a charged or
> gravitational field this coefficent would increase...I think
> of this in terms of my Beautiful Universe ether of dielectric
> nodes, except this may give the wrong idea it is something
> matter wades in.. not so. Matter and ether are made if the
> selfsame nodes of energy!
>
> Cheers
>
> Vladimir
>
> _____________________
>
> vladimirtamari.com <http://vladimirtamari.com/>
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Richard Gauthier
> <richgauthier at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Hodge,
>
> I don’t remember asking that. But if I did, I’m glad
> the question was helpful.
>
> I’m thinking about inertia these days. Do you or others
> have any insights about its nature?
>
> Richard
>
> On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Hodge John
> <<mailto:jchodge at frontier.com>jchodge at frontier.com> wrote:
>
> Richard Gauthier:
>
> You asked if the galaxy redshift, Pioneer anomaly,
> Pound--Rebka experiment model had a velocity term. I
> looked at redshift data for 1 galaxy and found no
> indication of a velocity term.
>
> I had not noticed this in the equations. Your
> suggestion that the plenum field can look like the
> Higgs field seems valid. That is, the acceleration of
> the plenum field looks like it adds energy (mass) is a
> Higgs Field characteristic. Thus, the plenum is closer
> to the idea of a quantum field and Higgs field (weak
> force).
>
> Thanks for the insight.
>
> Hodge
>
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