[General] double photon cycle, subjective v objective realities

[Dr Grahame Blackwell]

Hi Richard (also Chip, John W et al),

Thanks for your response.  I see you say "based on the experimental evidence for this" (i.e. electron spin 1/2 at all speeds/energies).  Are you saying that you know that such evidence exists?  If so, it'd be great to see any references you have for it; if not, we're back to pure supposition, presumably (based on 'accepted wisdom' - which I think we're all agreed is far from being any sort of evidence at all).

I agree with your observation that the spin of an electron formed from a conventional photon tends to 1(+) as its speed tends to c.  I don't yet see this as a problem (unless you have those references as above and they constitute firm proof).  I can't see, though, how your model can maintain spin 1/2 over all speeds of electron motion.  As I see it (based on a velocity triangle for linear and cyclic components that matches the relationship given by the Relativistic Energy-Momentum Relation, which determines the relative directions of momentum components and so also velocity components), the contribution from your spin-1/2 photon's own spin to the electron's spin about its axis of linear motion will be:  v/c x 1/2 = v/(2c) .  The contribution from the linear momentum of the photon in its cyclic motion would thus have to be: 1/2 - v/(2c) consistently, as v varies.  You describe your cyclic-motion spin component (as I understand it) as: 1/(2gamma^2), which doesn't seem to fit the bill.  How do you get those two elements to fit together to neatly give 1/2 in all cases? [NB I've left out the hbar throughout in order to reduce clutter - so I'm talking spin rather than full spin ang. mom. term.]  [As an afterthought: the only other parameter that you may be varying is the speed of that circulating photon; as I see it that must be c to fit in with observations on relativistic electrons?]

Like you, I'd also be very interested to see John W's model of an electron with spin 1/2 at all electron speeds/energies.  There are issues here that I certainly can't see a way round at present.

Best regards to all,
Grahame
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Gauthier 
  To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion 
  Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 9:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [General] double photon cycle, subjective v objective realities


  Hello Grahame, Chip, John W and all,


     I appreciate your persistence with this question about the calculated spin of electron models at relativistic energies, and also about the evidence for an experimental value of electron spin of 1/2 at high energies. The second requires a knowledgeable expert high energy physics experimenter’s answer, I think, based on the experimental evidence for this. The first needs to be resolved by people like us who don’t necessarily accept the idea of a point-like electron with intrinsic spin 1/2, but who want our electron models to match the experimental evidence about the electron as closely as possible.  I believe that John W said that his latest electron model has spin 1/2 at all energies. I asked him several e-mails back if he knows this about his electron model from a spin calculation with his electron model, or by some symmetry argument. I think we would like to know that this invariant spin 1/2 result for his relativistic electron model comes from a calculation if possible. But I don’t see how John W or anyone else can start with a circling spin 1 photon to get a spin 1/2 resting electron (that part is OK for a double looping 1 Compton wavelength h/mc photon and I think we “double-loopers" are agreed about this), and also also get a spin 1/2 relativistic electron model from the same circulating spin 1 photon, for the reason that we have discussed: more and more of the spin 1 photon’s spin is in the longitudinal direction for a fast moving electron model as the speed of the electron increases towards highly relativistic velocities, so how does this relativistic circulating-spin-1-photon electron model’s spin ever fall much below 1 hbar at highly relativistic velocities?


      This is one reason why I think that an electron model has to be composed of a circling spin 1/2 (and charged) photon from the beginning (in the resting electron), so that this spin 1/2 of the photon model will dominate in the electron model at relativistic velocities, while the contribution to the electron model’s spin in the double-looping resting photon (which is 1/2 hbar in the resting electron) drops off (as 1/gamma^2) towards zero at relativistic electron velocities.
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