[General] Photon cycle rate in moving particle - faster or slower??

Dr Grahame Blackwell grahame at starweave.com
Thu Jun 23 15:50:25 PDT 2016


Hi Richard,

I know you're not claiming established scientific validity for your model, any more than any of us is.  It was just that you didn't actually reference your model in that statement: you made a factual statement about Compton scattering ("energy lost by the Compton-scattered x-ray photon is gained by the recoiling electron") and then carried straight on with the statement that the photon forming the electron "would continue to make two full helical loops for each wavelength (as in a resting electron)" - thus giving the impression that both of those assertions carried the same degree of authority (rather than one being established fact and the other simply a feature of your model).  That's why I asked for a reference to any evidence of the latter.

With regard to quantitive verification of the behaviour of my model in accordance with empirical evidence in Compton scattering: I cover this subject very thoroughly in my book, over six full pages. I consider the impact of a photon on a moving electron as seen from within the static observer frame and also the 'rest-frame' of the electron, from both the SR perspective and the perspective of a unique objectively static universal rest-frame (which is of course the scenario for my view of both energy propagation and particle structure).  I show that the latter perspective gives identical results (for differing reasons) to the SR perspective, including the appearance of an invariant 'rest-mass' in the (moving) electron rest-frame despite the fact that said electron is now carrying more formative energy (i.e higher-frequency formative photon) in its objectively assessed motion state.  This is presented as a follow-on to what I consider to be a robust proof of inertial frame asymmetry.

Best regards,
Grahame


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Gauthier 
  To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion ; Dr Grahame Blackwell 
  Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 2:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [General] Photon cycle rate in moving particle - faster orslower??


  Hi Grahame,
     I’m sorry if you thought that I might have been claiming that my description of the double-looping helically-moving spin-1/2 charged photon composing the recoiling electron in the Compton experiment is an established fact. That would be the same as claiming that my spin-1/2 charged photon model of the electron is itself an established fact, which it obviously is not and which I have never claimed and I am not such a fool as to claim. But it is a good exercise to see how one’s electron model would apply to an experimental situation, like the Compton effect or for example the photoelectric effect or to an electron in an atom. I would very much like to see quantitatively what your model of the electron (and also John W’s and Vivian’s and Chip’s models) would look like when applied to the recoiling electron in the Compton effect.
        Richard


    On Jun 23, 2016, at 2:00 AM, Dr Grahame Blackwell <grahame at starweave.com> wrote:


    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for that info.  I'd seen pretty well all of that before, of course - and I believe we're agreed that there's a lot of common ground between your view of a particle and mine.  I agree also that there are some very useful contributions to the debate coming from all of those you mention, I also found Chandra's latest posting (his book chapter) most interesting on a rather different aspect of the same issue.

    My question (below) in my previous email was specifically about the reducing size of a particle as its speed increases.  In your previous mailing (below mine) you stated that "The helically-moving charged  photon composing the recoiling electron would continue to make two full helical loops for each wavelength (as in a resting electron) but at a higher looping frequency", as if it's an established fact related to Compton scattering rather than just your view (presumably essential to your model).  I was interested to know whether there is empirical evidence of this; I see that as rather different from 'It follows from your model, which is consistent with various empirical data' - they're two rather different things.

    Best regards,
    Grahame

    -------------------------
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Richard Gauthier
      To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
      Cc: Phil Butler ; Anthony Booth ; Stephen Leary ; Mark,Martin van der ; Solomon Freer
      Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 7:52 AM
      Subject: Re: [General] Photon cycle rate in moving particle - faster orslower??


      Hello Grahame,


         Some of the empirical evidence that is consistent with the relativistically-moving spin-1/2 charged photon model of the electron, that you asked fort, is indicated below. You are right that a lateral decrease in the size of an electron with increasing speed raises questions about relativity, which is fine. But facts are facts, and need explaining. Maybe we can make some progress here to further clarify these issues, as John W, Alexander, Martin, Vivian, Chip and yourself among others, have already contributed to.


      1) The model explains the origin of the inertial mass m of the resting electron as due to the time rate of change of the momentum mc of the circulating photon having circulating energy Eo=mc^2 (other circling-photon models can also explain this), according to Newton’s 2nd law F=dp/dt = ma .

      ... etc

      ....................

      On Jun 22, 2016, at 3:37 AM, Dr Grahame Blackwell <grahame at starweave.com> wrote:


      Hi Richard,

      I'm not sure where you found your empirical evidence that "The helically-moving charged  photon composing the recoiling electron would continue to make two full helical loops for each wavelength (as in a resting electron) but at a higher looping frequency", I'd be very interested to see that.  Or is it just a supposition based on SR frame symmetry?

      Either way it seems to me that this proposal creates a major problem for SR (and for the established empirical evidence): if the formative energy of a particle is circulating faster in a moving particle, then the effects of that energy flow (i.e. time effects within the particle, such as particle decay - which can ONLY be down to internal energy flow) will occur *faster* in a moving particle than in a static one; this appears to be totally contrary to observed fact, for example in fast-moving muons.  [I appreciate that this evidence relates to muons and you're talking about electrons - but if completely different principles apply in those two elementary particles I think we'll need an explanation for why - and some empirical evidence].

      Best regards,
      Grahame

      Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:43 AM
      Subject: Re: [General] PS: Matter comprised of light-speed energy


      Hi John D,


         In Compton scattering, the wavelength of the incoming photon increases, not decreases, as the photon is scattered by the electron. The energy lost by the Compton-scattered x-ray photon is gained by the recoiling electron. The internal wavelength of the circulating spin-1/2 charged photon composing the recoiling electron would decrease corresponding to the increased energy of the recoiling electron. The helically-moving charged  photon composing the recoiling electron would continue to make two full helical loops for each wavelength (as in a resting electron) but at a higher looping frequency, corresponding to the shorter wavelength distance along the helix for two helical loops..
        
             Richard
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