[General] Proposed photon wave functions

Albrecht Giese genmail at a-giese.de
Thu Oct 6 13:39:47 PDT 2016


Richard,

you know my objection. Inertial mass and momentum are fundamentally the 
same physical phenomenon. Just the result of a different application. 
And so it is no real explanation to explain mass by momentum. Because 
that means that you explain a physical phenomenon by the same physical 
phenomenon.

Albrecht

(And you may have a look at www.ag-physics.org/rmass )


Am 06.10.2016 um 15:12 schrieb Richard Gauthier:
> John and Vivian and others,
>    Yes, inertial mass must be defined by F=ma and F=dp/dt as Newton 
> defined it, though he couldn’t explain what causes it. It is caused by 
> a particle’s circling internal momentum, as I derive in 
> https://www.academia.edu/25641654/A_New_Derivation_of_Eo_mc_2_Explains_a_Particles_Inertia , 
> which is attached.
>     Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Oct 5, 2016, at 9:49 PM, Vivian Robinson <viv at universephysics.com 
>> <mailto:viv at universephysics.com>> wrote:
>>
>> John,
>>
>> Thanks for the advice. I regularly reference Einstein's Ann. der 
>> Phys. 17, 639-641 (1905) paper. By mass I have tried to think of it 
>> as inertial mass mi, given by F = mi.a. Gravitational mass mg is 
>> different by potential energy (PE) divided by c squared (mg = mi - 
>> PE/c^2). Rest mass mr is mi measured at velocity = 0 with respect to 
>> mi. Relativistic mass mrel is the mass measured at velocity v wrt an 
>> observer. Invariant mass doesn't exist because its value depends upon 
>> its positionwrt an observer, gravitational field and velocity. In 
>> practice all mi, mg and mr will be measured the same within 
>> experimental error, essentially making them invariant.
>>
>> IMHO, you are quite correct about aspects of the standard model. 
>> There are some very serious problems.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Viv
>>
>>
>>
>> On 06/10/2016, at 4:08 AM, John Duffield <johnduffield at btconnect.com 
>> <mailto:johnduffield at btconnect.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Viv:
>>> Good stuff. I empathize totally.
>>> Re photons and mass, do make sure you call it/inertial mass/. And/or 
>>> protect yourself with a reference toEinstein’s E=mc² paper 
>>> <https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/www/>, where the 
>>> last line reads thus:
>>> /“If the theory corresponds to the facts, radiation conveys inertia 
>>> between the emitting and absorbing bodies”.///
>>> I say this because IMHO the sort of people who bang on about gluons 
>>> or the 8^th spatial dimension will use anything cast aspersions on 
>>> people like you.
>>> I’ve been doing some major writing recently, and in doing so I’m 
>>> getting the feeling that there’s more wrong with standard-model 
>>> physics than people appreciate. Much more.
>>> Regards
>>> JohnD
>>> *From:*General 
>>> [mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org 
>>> <mailto:bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>]*On 
>>> Behalf Of*Vivian Robinson
>>> *Sent:*05 October 2016 09:58
>>> *To:*Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion 
>>> <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org 
>>> <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>>
>>> *Subject:*Re: [General] Proposed photon wave functions
>>> Rear Richard and others,
>>> I submitted my results to the group in the hope that it would start 
>>> debate on my topic. Richard I appreciate that you have taken time to 
>>> make a couple of comments. I would like to add a few points to aid 
>>> (I hope) further discussion.
>>> First, the so called "standard models" of matter suffer from some 
>>> disadvantages, not the least of which is the use of invented 
>>> concepts, e.g. quarks, gluons and strings that have never been 
>>> separately identified. String theory is one very bad example. It 
>>> uses several space dimensions that have never been detected along 
>>> with particles too small to be ever detected to make predictions 
>>> that don't match observation. However the mathematics is 
>>> sufficiently complicated that referees are prepared to accept that 
>>> it may have some future. That is another example of theoreticians 
>>> being out of touch with reality. I am sure that if their funding 
>>> body informed them that their salary has been paid  in full in a 
>>> combinations of strings in the 8th spatial dimension, our universe 
>>> being the three detectable ones  and they can collect it when they 
>>> find the eighth dimension and unravel the strings, they would also 
>>> be the first to complain. Yet they would have us believe that is the 
>>> origins of the whole universe, not just their salary.
>>> Quarks and gluons are another example. They have never been 
>>> separately isolated. So Quantum ChromoDynamics (QCD) theoreticians 
>>> developed the concept that the gluon "force" between quarks 
>>> increases as their separation distance increases. Unfortunately when 
>>> "satellite" nucleons orbit a nucleus at a "significant distance" 
>>> where quark separations are quite large, the binding is very weak 
>>> and the lifetimes of these nuclei are measures immilli seconds. As 
>>> some QCD practitioners will attest, QCD calculations are not good at 
>>> matching observation so theoreticians keep changing their model 
>>> until it does. They have devised 36 quarks, 2 types, 3 generations 
>>> of each type. three "colours for each generation, plus their 
>>> anti-particles, plus 8 colours or flavours of gluons, a total of 44 
>>> undetected particles, and they still can't get good answers. Again 
>>> by making their mathematics complex they avoid scrutiny by non experts.
>>> The point is that "standard model" physics has many examples of 
>>> theoreticians using non detected particles or entities and 
>>> dimensions, to give unsatisfactory answers to some aspects of 
>>> experimental observation. Trying to replace those with a further set 
>>> of hypothetical particles, be they rotars, hods, microvita or faster 
>>> than light (superluminal) particles does not make their concept any 
>>> better than those forwarded by standard model practitioners. Being 
>>> able to match a few physical properties by ascribing specific 
>>> properties to undetected hypothetical particles is no advance if all 
>>> it is doing is matching a few local properties.
>>> I am forwarding my work as different. It uses known properties of 
>>> free space, namely its electric permittivity (ep) and magnetic 
>>> permeability (mp). It suggests that these facilitate the passage of 
>>> packets of electromagnetic energy called photons, possibly by being 
>>> composed of vibrations in ep and mp. John W and I have used 
>>> different wording to convey the idea that photons convey mass, as 
>>> was proposed by Einstein in 1905. I feel sure a suitable set of 
>>> words could be found to describe how those photon oscillations 
>>> convey that mass. I have presented four wave equations that describe 
>>> the Einstein-de Broglie wave function psi, along with a physical 
>>> representation of them.
>>> I describe the angular momentum of photons as being due to the 
>>> circular wave motion of the electromagnetic field in circularly 
>>> polarised photons. This implies that plane polarised photons will 
>>> not have any angular momentum and hence no intrinsic spin. This is 
>>> able to be checked experimentally. Its rotating centre of mass only 
>>> travels at sqrt 2 x c for a photon composed of a single wavelength. 
>>> It is not a super luminal velocity. The centre of mass is a 
>>> mathematical point that rotates. It is not a physical rotation of a 
>>> mass traveling faster than c. The mass of the photon is traveling at 
>>> c in its propagation direction. One might as well say that the wave 
>>> motion of the electric field is superluminal because it follows a 
>>> sine curve which has a length longer than the straight line travel 
>>> of c. That does not mean that its mass is travelling faster than c 
>>> and therefore all photons are superluminal.
>>> Mathematical points traveling at faster than c is not superluminal 
>>> travel. There has been an often quoted example of waving a laser 
>>> into space. If waved fast enough across the dark surface of the new 
>>> moon, it could be possible to observe the laser point moving across 
>>> the moon's surface at faster than c. That is a mathematical point 
>>> moving faster than c. It is not superluminal motion.
>>> I submit that making models of hypothetical particles and ascribing 
>>> properties to them is not the same as deriving those properties from 
>>> fundamental considerations. Others are entitled to their own views.
>>> FYI, I have been working on this for three decades. I decided not to 
>>> publish much of my work, apart from compiling it into some extended 
>>> manuscripts, complete with ISBNs, that I made available to a few 
>>> selected friends and interested parties. My career experience was 
>>> that reviewers and critics have a habit of raising non relevant 
>>> objections, bogging authors down and slowing further progress.
>>> Chandra, is that the kind of paper you would like presented at your 
>>> next SPIE conference? It will be more advanced by then.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Vivian Robinson
>>> On 29/09/2016, at 11:25 PM, Richard Gauthier <richgauthier at gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:richgauthier at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>     Hello Vivian, Chip and others,
>>>        The derivations of the radius R=lambda/2pi of my internally
>>>     superluminal photon model and the corresponding 45-degree
>>>     forward angle of the photon model's internal helical trajectory
>>>     are given in Section 5, equations 8 through 17 in my published
>>>     1996 article “Microvita: A new approach to matter, life and
>>>     health”, which I attach and which is available from Springer and
>>>     at
>>>     https://www.academia.edu/28777551/Microvita_A_New_Approach_to_Matter_Life_and_Health.
>>>     My internally-double-looping model of the electron is also
>>>     presented quantitatively there in Section 6. The electron model
>>>     there has evolved into my SPIE relativistic spin-1/2
>>>     charged-photon electron model since then. It follows directly
>>>     from the photon model's helical angle of 45 degrees that the
>>>     internal speed of the photon model is c sqrt(2), which I state
>>>     explicitly in my published 2007 article “FTL quantum models of
>>>     the photon and the electron”, attached below and available from
>>>     STAIF-2007 and at
>>>     https://www.academia.edu/4429837/FTL_Quantum_Models_of_the_Photon_and_the_Electron .
>>>
>>>      Richard
>>>     <Microvita A New Approach to Matter Life and Health.pdf>
>>>     <FTL Quantum Models of the Photon and the Electron.pdf>
>>>
>>>         On Sep 24, 2016, at 8:34 AM, Richard Gauthier
>>>         <richgauthier at gmail.com <mailto:richgauthier at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>         Hello Vivian,
>>>          I’ve gone through your new article on the photon and it
>>>         looks interesting. I appreciate that your photon model is
>>>         now internally superluminal with an internal helical speed
>>>         of c sqrt(2) and an effective radius of lambda/2pi. Your
>>>         photon model has similarities to Chip’s model of the photon
>>>         in this and other respects and I’m surprised that you didn’t
>>>         reference his work. I would be interested to see a
>>>         comparison between your photon model and Chip’s. I’d also
>>>         like to hear Chip’s comments on your photon model.
>>>          Richard
>>>
>>>             On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:55 PM, Vivian Robinson
>>>             <viv at universephysics.com
>>>             <mailto:viv at universephysics.com>> wrote:
>>>             Hodge,
>>>             It would still be best if you sent the article. I
>>>             (finally) accessed some of your STOE articles but could
>>>             not find mse42my.pdf. I am not exactly sure to what you
>>>             are referring.
>>>             Some aspects of your work have commonality with mine. I
>>>             use detectable photons as the basis of everything, you
>>>             use hods. We are both trying to show that everything
>>>             follows from that one particle. I prefer my approach
>>>             because photons are detectable and have properties to
>>>             which my work must comply. The wave functions in my
>>>             article are their restriction. Like you I prefer
>>>             Newtonian mechanics to relativity and quantum mechanics.
>>>             There are many observations that confirm relativity and
>>>             quantum mechanics that don't match Newtonian mechanics.
>>>             My work must match those observations.
>>>             I have found that the toroidal (John W and Martin vdM)
>>>             or rotating photon (Viv  R) model of an electron is one
>>>             in which an electron consists of a photon of the
>>>             appropriate energy (≈ 0.511 MeV at rest) makes two
>>>             revolutions in one wavelength. It is this that gives the
>>>             electron spin (angular momentum) of half hbar. The E -
>>>             mc^2 relationship between mass and energy is mass is the
>>>             photon rotating twice within its wavelength. Unlock its
>>>             angular momentum gives it energy E = mc^2. As the
>>>             particle moves its structure means that it is
>>>             automatically subject to the special relativity
>>>             corrections of mass, length and time. I make mention of
>>>             other properties, although as Richard G pointed out, my
>>>             derivation of the magnetic moment of the electron was in
>>>             error in that paper. I have now corrected that.
>>>             I suggest that all other particles, stable or otherwise,
>>>             are composed of appropriate rotating photons and have
>>>             derived the structure and properties of many of them
>>>             based upon that model. If this is the structure of all
>>>             matter, the special relativity corrections are due to
>>>             the rotating photon being "stretched" as it moves.
>>>             They are not some mathematically imposed restriction.
>>>             You will find that when you apply Newtonian mechanics to
>>>             a photon with those waveforms and mass, you get
>>>             Einstein's general theory of relativity for space
>>>             outside matter, ie, gravity as we know it. The exception
>>>             is that there is no singularity at the Schwarzschild
>>>             radius and therefore no black holes. That doesn't
>>>             prevent the existence of massive objects, which is all
>>>             astronomers are detecting. It is the theoretical
>>>             physicists who call them black holes. Astronomical
>>>             measurements are still thousands of times less accurate
>>>             than required to distinguish between my metric and the
>>>             Schwarzschild metric. I am confident that when they do
>>>             improve, my metric, with the gravitational singularity
>>>             at the centre of mass and not at the Schwarzschild
>>>             radius, will hold.
>>>             You will then recognise that gravity is not inverse
>>>             square law. If you studied Newton's Principia you will
>>>             see that he also worked out what would happen if gravity
>>>             was stronger or weaker than inverse square law. His
>>>             observations showed that the planets were following the
>>>             trajectories predicted by the inverse square law
>>>             calculations, leading to the conclusion that
>>>             gravity is controlled by inverse square. However, not
>>>             all observations follow the inverse square law.
>>>             Conclusion - gravity is not inverse square.
>>>             The only reason the Big Bang theory was accepted was
>>>             because early calculations showed that, if gravity was
>>>             inverse square law, an infinite static universe would
>>>             collapse in on itself through gravitational attraction.
>>>             That clearly hasn't happened. Einstein tried to overcome
>>>             it with his cosmological constant. His field equations
>>>             only allowed for an expanding or collapsing universe.
>>>             Since forwarding the Big Bang theory, they have done
>>>             everything to match a new observation into that theory,
>>>             ignoring the other possibility. If gravity isn't inverse
>>>             square, other possibilities exist.
>>>             Again, using Newtonian mechanics to the structure of the
>>>             photon I propose, shows that gravity is either inverse
>>>             square law or stronger for space outside matter: Or
>>>             inverse square law or weaker for space inside matter,
>>>             something that applies to the structure of the universe
>>>             as a whole. If you have a universe in which gravity is
>>>             weaker than the inverse square law by an amount
>>>             predicted from my photon's wave function, then an
>>>             infinite static universe will not collapse under
>>>             gravitational influence. Photons from distant galaxies
>>>             will still be redshifted, as observed. Things like
>>>             gravitational lensing still occur, although I am not
>>>             convinced that everything forwarded as gravitational
>>>             lensing is actually gravitational lensing.
>>>             Forget the Big Bang theory. Therefore no inflation
>>>             (straight after the Big Bang). Dark matter is required
>>>             to explain the more rapid rotation of galaxies. Based
>>>             upon other aspects of inverse square law, galaxies and
>>>             even clusters of galaxies would be expected to rotate
>>>             about their centre of mass much faster than is
>>>             determined from gravity alone. The detected components
>>>             in galaxies will cause them to rotate significantly
>>>             faster than predicted from either Newtonian or
>>>             Relativistic gravity. That statement can be justified by
>>>             experimental evidence (courtesy of Uncle Sam whose work
>>>             is much appreciated at least by this author) beyond the
>>>             mere detection of more rapidly rotating galaxies. Forget
>>>             about dark matter.
>>>             As for dark energy, it is based upon the observation of
>>>             apparently anomalous type 1a supernovae (SNe1a)
>>>             intensities. In order to match the observed SNe1a
>>>             intensities to my work I need our galaxy to be in a
>>>             region of space with a density of about 10^-24 kg/m^3.
>>>             This is about 1,000 times the density required under the
>>>             Big Bang theory for the universe to exist in its current
>>>             form some 23.8 billion years after the Big Bang. But
>>>             there are many problems with that figure.
>>>             The odds of the universe having this structure 13.8
>>>             billion years after the Big Bang are about 1 : 10^60. (I
>>>             doubt that any Big Bang proponent would risk his/her
>>>             money when she/he had only 1 : 1000 chance of winning.
>>>             If they are, I am prepared to wager against as many as
>>>             are prepared to show their faith in low odds.) Yet they
>>>             expect us to believe the whole universe exists because
>>>             of 1 : 10^60 odds and we are the one universe in over
>>>             10^60 other universes in the multiverse. Talk about
>>>             having lost touch with reality. Another feature is that
>>>             a "quick" (i.e., long and involved) calculation will
>>>             show that the density of the visible universe is higher
>>>             than ≈ 10^-27 kg/m^3. Thirdly, for an expanding universe
>>>             in which there is only light from up to 13.8 billion
>>>             light years distance, there are far too many stars
>>>             visible in the Hubble Extreme field images (again,
>>>             thanks Uncle Sam). I am sure some of you can think of
>>>             other observations as well.
>>>             Going back to dark energy. In order to match the
>>>             observed SNe1a intensities, my model requires a local (<
>>>             10^8 LYs radius) density of just over 1 x 10^-24 kg/m^3,
>>>             dropping down to a background average of ≈ 8 x 10^-26
>>>             kg/m^3. Or another effect I haven't yet included. Both
>>>             of these figures are much higher than the "official"
>>>             (i.e. matches their theory) value of ≈ 10^-27 kg/m^3. A
>>>             brief look at the stars in our local region, ≈ 10^6 LYs
>>>             radius, gives the number of sun mass stars, ≈ 200 x 10^9
>>>             for Milky Way, ≈ 300 x 10^9 Andromeda, and others, gives
>>>             a star mass density approaching 10^-25 kg/m^3. Here is
>>>             where astronomers are a little vague. The mass of
>>>             galaxies is usually quoted in terms of number of stars
>>>             of the same mass as our sun (luminous matter). They also
>>>             add to that figure, the observation that the average
>>>             galaxy has about ten times as much matter in a gas and
>>>             dust cloud surrounding the galaxy (non luminous matter)
>>>             as there is luminous matter. Adding the mass of the non
>>>             luminous matter to the mass of the luminous matter, if
>>>             it isn't already included, gets me close to 10^-24
>>>             kg/m^3. I admit I am not quite there. I am not out by as
>>>             much as a factor of 24 times the observed mass of the
>>>             universe and that is without dark matter to make the
>>>             galaxies rotate faster than they should under gravity alone.
>>>             There are many other problems associated with the Big
>>>             Bang theory. Just think about the additional mass a
>>>             galaxy must have to a receding velocity that gives a
>>>             redshift of 10. Perhaps you know a few more of them.
>>>             In summary, I believe the photon model just forwarded
>>>             can be used with the rotating photon or toroidal
>>>             electromagnetic field structure of matter and Newtonian
>>>             mechanics give a continuity between quantum "weirdness"
>>>             and special and general relativity. Much of what is
>>>             called quantum "weirdness" can be explained by the
>>>             structures of the photon and the particles composed of
>>>             rotating or toroidal photons. Yes they need refinement,
>>>             but we have to start somewhere. As I said, the object of
>>>             my communication was to have a general discussion on the
>>>             nature of light and particles.
>>>             I append my paper on the electron structure FYI.
>>>             Regards,
>>>             Vivian Robinson
>>>             <Proposed electron structure.pdf>
>>>             On 23/09/2016, at 1:08 AM, Hodge John
>>>             <jchodge at frontier.com <mailto:jchodge at frontier.com>> wrote:
>>>
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