[General] JW on STR twin Paradox

Wolfgang Baer wolf at nascentinc.com
Mon Jul 10 23:01:47 PDT 2017


Graham;

I think you are saying someting that I have been trying to make clear to 
Albrecht which derives from my attempt to move physics away from the 
Aristotelian beleif that we see reality through the windows of our 
senses and employ the Platonic belief that we see the 'shadows" - in 
modern the measurement we see our interpretation of the measurement 
reports from our sensors - in this case our body built in coordinate 
frame. I then translate your statements into more anthropomorphic 
observer inclusive language

observer in a moving frame would be led to believe from observation that 
their frame is static

a consciousness inside a moving body would form his perceptive 
experience believe he is stationary in that body


(a) time dilation and (b) length contraction in the absolutely static frame
those two effects are of course NOT objective realities in the static frame

When a conscious observer "sees" another reference frame it is NOT an 
independent external reality but rather a mental image inside his own 
perceptive experience. Therefore the time dilation and length 
contraction is NOt an objective reality of the static frame


they are perceived by the moving observer as a consequence of their OWN 
motion).

But rather an artifact of producing the perceptive image of the static 
frame in his own mind

.

Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com

On 7/9/2017 11:50 AM, Albrecht Giese wrote:
>
> Grahame,
>
> so as you have explained 'reciprocity' here, it is also my understanding.
>
> Sorry, I missed your book. Can you please give me a reference (if it 
> is in the internet) or the exact title and editor, if it is only 
> available as a hard copy?
>
> One question in advance: Does the book also cover GRT? And if this is 
> the case, is it also based on a fixed frame, so that it assumes 
> something like an ether?
>
> Best regards
> Albrecht
>
>
> Am 08.07.2017 um 14:01 schrieb Dr Grahame Blackwell:
>> Albrecht,
>> I'd agree with all that you say here.  I'd add just one reminder, of 
>> what we've talked about before.
>> For the 'unique absolute rest frame' to fully stand up to scrutiny in 
>> the light of experimental findings of SR, it's not only necessary to 
>> show that an observer in a moving frame would be led to believe from 
>> observation that their frame is static - it's also necessary to show 
>> that this moving observer would perceive the SAME degree of (a) time 
>> dilation and (b) length contraction in the absolutely static frame as 
>> would be seen from that static frame in the observer's frame (those 
>> two effects are of course NOT objective realities in the static 
>> frame, they are perceived by the moving observer as a consequence of 
>> their OWN motion).
>> To show that the moving observer perceives themself as static is 
>> relatively (!!) easy; to show that they perceive an actually-static 
>> frame as subject to relativistic effects takes a little more thought 
>> - but it can be done, and shown to be so.  [This is what I have 
>> referred to previously as 'reciprocity'.]
>> In addition, of course, it needs to be - and CAN be - shown how EVERY 
>> experimental finding that's considered to be evidence for frame 
>> symmetry can be fully explained without any need for, or reference 
>> to, frame symmetry.
>> No paradoxes - just a little more thought than most physicists appear 
>> to have wished to put into explaining the 'how' of Relativity (which 
>> is what I always thought physics was actually about - explaining the 
>> 'how'?)
>> All of this is shown in detail in my latest book, published last year.
>> Best regards,
>> Grahame
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     *From:* Albrecht Giese <mailto:phys at a-giese.de>
>>     *To:* general at lists..natureoflightandparticles.org
>>     <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>>     *Sent:* Friday, July 07, 2017 9:06 PM
>>     *Subject:* Re: [General] JW on STR twin Paradox
>>
>>     Chip,
>>
>>
>>     I also think that it is the easiest and most physical way to
>>     understand relativity in general and dilation in particular, if
>>     one assumes that there is an absolute frame of rest, and that the
>>     motion with respect to this frame causes (among other phenomena)
>>     dilation. But it is a specific property of relativity that every
>>     observer in any inertial frame can assume that his frame is the
>>     frame at rest. And in his observation the physical world behaves
>>     indeed as if his frame would be the absolute frame at rest.
>>
>>
>>     This sounds like a paradox at the first glance. But with a proper
>>     use of the Lorentz transformation it can be explained why it is
>>     this way. It is a bit of work to make these calculations, but it
>>     is possible and one may say that this work is a necessity to
>>     understand special relativity.
>>
>>
>>     Albrecht
>>
>>
>>
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