[General] Fw: STR twin Paradox

Sat Jun 3 10:43:11 PDT 2017

Hi Wolf, Albrecht, John W et al.,

I want to express complete agreement with John W on the role of accel'n/grav'n in resolving any apparent paradox in the twins saga.
I must first, though, draw attention to what appears to be an elementary error in Wolf's analysis (unless I've totally misunderstood you, Wolf - I can't see how this would be the case).

Wolf, you propose (quite reasonably) that each twin is initially moving away from the other at speed 'v'.  You then propose a variation in each twin's clock as perceived by the other, delta-t'.  However your expression for that delta-t' shows the other twin's clock progressing FASTER than that of the observer-twin (13 months instead of 12 months) - whereas of course the whole point of SRT is that the moving clock progresses SLOWER than that of the static observer.  This is due to a common fallacy, of applying the time-dilation factor, which gives the extended duration of each second, say, in the moving frame as observed from the static frame (hence the phrase 'time-dilation'), to the apparent time-passed in that moving frame.  This makes the ratio of observed/observer clock-time the inverse of what it should be according to SRT.  The perceived elapsed time in the moving frame should be observer time multiplied by the INVERSE of the Lorentz Factor.

This doesn't totally destroy your argument (though it does render it rather less plausible), since you are implying that on re-meeting the apparent accumulated difference will not be shown on either clock - as of course it couldn't be.  However, as John W points out, any apparent difference will be precisely wiped out by acceleration considerations: SRT is 100% internally self-consistent, it cannot be faulted on ANY application of its assertions with respect to time.

However, the fact that it's internally self-consistent doesn't make it RIGHT.  It's not difficult to envisage a set of mathematical rules - for instance, relating to trajectories - that give totally self-consistent results but don't accord with practical observations.

Here's where it gets interesting.  Because of course results of calculations in SRT DO fit with practical observations, and have done so for over a century.  The question then arises as to why this should be so - since, unlike pretty well every other branch of physics, no causal explanation has been found (or even sought?) for effects in spacetime as given by SRT.  It's been tacitly accepted by the mainstream physics community as "That's just how it is".  This is a statement of belief, not of science - the prime directive of science is to ask "Why?"

When I started on my own scientific investigations 20 years ago I took SRT totally at face value, totally uncritically.  I didn't actually start by asking "Why?" in relation to SRT.  As I progressed with my research, essentially into aspects on electromagnetic waves anf the fundamental nature of time, it gradually became apparent that there IS a "Why!".  That 'why' rests on the fact that all material objects are formed from electromagnetic energy (hence E = Mc-squared); in a moving object that energy is travelling linearly as well as cyclically within the object - and this combined motion beautifully explains EVERY aspect of SRT.

This explanation boils down to two considerations:
(1) Material objects are affected by their formative energy-flows moving linearly as well as cyclically, giving rise to time-dilation precisely in accordance with the formula given by SRT and Lorentz-Fitzgerald Contraction as also 'imported' into SRT;
(2) Material objects which happen to be (a) observers or (b) measuring instruments are likewise affected in both these respects when in motion, giving all other observed consequences detailed by SRT - as observer effects.

[As a point of detail, it IS possible to show the fallacy in SRT only if you consider matters from the level of particle formation, rather than complete particles.]

In other words, ALL observed phenomena that appear to confirm SRT (and also, in fact, GRT) can be fully explained WITHOUT the 'metaphysical' claim that "All inertial reference frames are equivalent" - that claim by SRT is a myth, one that has NO support in the evidence claimed for it.  It is a totally superfluous add-on to our picture of physical reality.

This being the case, the requirement (by mainstream physics) that all phenomena/fields/whatever MUST conform to that claim is arguably holding us back from making significant breakthroughs in our understanding of reality - breakthroughs that might even (dare I say it?) take us to the stars.  We are fencing ourselves in with an imaginary boundary.

Grahame

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Wolfgang Baer 
To: general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org 
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2017 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [General] STR twin Paradox

Albrecht:

Tell me why this is not thought experiment that shows Einsteins SRT interpretation gives rize to a paradox and therefore is wrong. 

Twin Paradox Experiment:

1) Somewhere in an intergalactic space far away from all local masses two identical twins are accelerated to opposite velocities so that each thinks the other is traveling away from themselves at velocity “v”.  

            By the equivalence principle both feel the equivalent of a temporary gravitational force which slows their clocks the same amount. They are now drifting apart 

2) Each of the twins feels he is standing still and the other twin is moving with a constant velocity “v” away. According to special relativity the relation between their own time Δt and the time they believe the other twins elapsed time  Δt’ is; Δt’ = Δt/ (1-v2/c2)1/2.

3) 

After 1 year on Twin 1’s  clock he believes twin two’s clock is Δt1’ = Δt1/ (1-v2/c2)1/2 After 1 year on Twin 1’s  clock he believes twin two’s clock is Δt2’ = Δt2/ (1-v2/c2)1/2

Thus Δt1= Δt2= 12 months Lets assume the velocities are such that Δt1’ = Δt2’ = 13 months.

4) After one year on their own clock each twin fires a retro rocket that reverses their velocities. By the equivalence principle the both clocks experience a gravity like force and their clocks speed up. Lets assume the acceleration lasts 1 day on their own clocks so now  Δt1= Δt2= 12 months + 1day and knowing the plan Δt1’ = Δt2’ = 13m + 1d

5) Now the two twins are drifting with the same relative velocity but toward each other with opposite signs. Each twin thinks the others clocks are lowing down by the formula Δt’ = Δt/ (1-v2/c2)1/2. They drift for exactly one year and now Δt1= Δt2= 24 months + 1day and they believing in special relativity think Δt1’ = Δt2’ = 26 months.+ 1.083days.

6) now the stop rocket fires for half a day on each twins clock and the twins come to rest exactly at the place they started. Their own clocks tell Δt1= Δt2= 24 months + 1.5day and they believing in special relativity think the others clock should be Δt1’ = Δt2’ = 26 months.+ 1.583days.

            They get out of their space ship/ coordinate frames and find that the two clocks tell exactly the same time so their belief in special relativity was wrong. 

Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail wolf at NascentInc.comOn 5/30/2017 1:37 PM, Albrecht Giese wrote:

  Wolf,

  before we enter discussions about details I send you a drawing of my experiment with some explanations. I think that it is simple enough so that we do not need too much philosophy about epistemology to understand it.

  My drawing: At the left side you see a part of the ring of the synchrotron in which the electrons cycle. They hit the target T (at 0 m) where they are converted into photons. The photons fly until the target H2 where they are deflected by a small angle (about one degree) (at 30.5 m). The deflected photons meet the converter (KONV  at 35 m) where a portion of the photons is converted into an electron- position pair. The pair is detected and analysed in the configuration of the magnet 2 MC 30 and telescopes of spark chambers (FT between 37.5 and 39.5 m). The rest of detectors at the right is for monitoring the basic photon beam.

  In the magnet and the telescopes the tracks of both particles (electron and positron) are measured and the momentum and the energy of both particles is determined.

  Here all flying objects are interpreted as being particles, there is no wave model needed. So, I do not see where we should need here any QM. 

  The rest of the mail will be commented later.

  Albrecht

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