[General] Can a single indivisible photon interfere?

Tue Sep 26 16:47:27 PDT 2017

Hi Al

Yes. But we can find out a tremendous amount by observing what we can. The specific behaviors caused by various circumstances tell us much more than just the fact that charges move masses.  What we can observe yields many clues because it discloses certain rules and patterns to the reactions.  No need to give up just because our ability to sense these things is limited. 

Thoughts?

Chip

From: General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of af.kracklauer at web.de
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 6:34 PM
To: general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
Cc: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
Subject: Re: [General] Can a single indivisible photon interfere?

Hi All:

"Charge" to be; or, not to be?    Be definition a two-gender charateristic of particles with mass to be attacted given similar genders, and repelled given dissimilar genders.  (Note: gender is determined in terms of what they do.) Thus, the attraction or repelling is defined in terms of the motion of the charge-carrying masses.  In other words there is nothing to be said about the whole matter except what the "charged" masses do dynamically.  This is exactly what happens in practice.  Currents are manipulated in sending antennes and measured as photocurrents in receiving antennas.  This means that, nothing can be said about the interaction (attracting or repelling) but only about the motion of the masses; all the rest is inferance.  Including waves, photons, magic bullets, whatever!  Logically this inference is indeterminable separate from the motion of the only observable, the masses.  Might as well say:  "God does it; basta!"   Maybe God is a photon!!

Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. September 2017 um 20:59 Uhr
Von: "Francois Henault" <francois.henault at univ-grenoble-alpes.fr <mailto:francois.henault at univ-grenoble-alpes.fr> >
An: "Andrew Meulenberg" <mules333 at gmail.com <mailto:mules333 at gmail.com> >, "Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion" <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org> >
Betreff: Re: [General] Can a single indivisible photon interfere?

Dear Andrew,

Yes, I borrowed the term "different" from Dirac's original sentence, but I fully agree with you

Best Regards,

Francois

Le 26/09/2017 à 17:26, Andrew Meulenberg a écrit :

Dear Francois,

I liked the inversion of Dirac's statement in your abstract of an earlier paper (below). 

"Simple alternative model of the dual nature of light and its Gedanken experiment" <https://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Henault_F/0/1/0/all/0/1>   F. Henault   

In this paper is presented a simple alternative model of the dual nature of light, based on the deliberate inversion of the original statement from P. A. M. Dirac: "Each photon interferes only with itself. Interference between different photons never occurs."

While it makes what I feel is a needed refinement of Chandra/s Non-Interference of Waves position, it perhaps still misses something that Dirac might not have been aware of - the existence of identical photons. Your use of "different" could preclude "identical"; however, the language is ambiguous and it could also include separate, but identical, photons.

I would contend that identical photons (and perhaps the recently-produced, single-wavelength, photons) could interact with one another.

Best regards,

Andrew M
_ _ _

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:05 AM, François henault <francois.henault at univ-grenoble-alpes.fr <mailto:francois.henault at univ-grenoble-alpes.fr> > wrote: 

Dear Chandra,
About interferometric experiments, perhaps you could have a look to my paper "Quantum physics and the beam splitter mystery" presented in your SPIE conference "The Nature of Light" 2015:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1509.00393

Best Regards,
Francois

Le 25/09/2017 à 23:56, Roychoudhuri, Chandra a écrit :

Hello Everybody: Here is a potentially new “thread” for debate for our community.

“Can a single indivisible photon interfere?”

My answer is a strong “No”.

I just presented this paper at the OSA Annual meeting last week, held  at Washington, DC. It was well accepted by many.

It is only an 11-slide presentation. However, it experimentally demonstrates that, for Superposition Effect to emerge, we must have the simultaneous presence of two physical signals carrying two physically different phase information incident on the opposite sides of the beam-combiner of a two-beam Mach-Zehnder interferometer. The superposition effect emerges as purely a classical effect facilitated by the dielectric boundary of the beam combiner (classical light-matter interaction; no QM). The energies in the two superposed beams can have any value, no lower limit like “h-nu”. Thus, single photon interference is causally and physically an untenable logic, in my view point.

The experiment also underscores that the postulate of the “Wave-particle duality”, is completely unnecessary for EM waves. In fact, the Copenhagen Interpretation becomes more logical and causal without this postulate. The QM formulation is essentially correct. We do not need to degrade it by imposing non-causal postulates.

In the past, I have also proposed an experiment to validate that for “particle interference”, we also need pairs of out-of-phase particles to nullify the stimulation of the detector molecule to generate “dark fringes”.

Chandra. 

_______________________________________________
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at francois.henault at univ-grenoble-alpes.fr <mailto:francois.henault at univ-grenoble-alpes.fr> 
<a href= <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/francois.henault%40univ-grenoble-alpes.fr?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1> "http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/francois.henault%40univ-grenoble-alpes.fr?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">
Click here to unsubscribe
</a>

-- 
__________________________________

François Hénault
Ingénieur de Recherche
Institut de Planétologie et d’Astrophysique de Grenoble (IPAG)
UMR CNRS 5274
Bâtiment OSUG-A, Porte 65
414, Rue de la Piscine 
Université Grenoble-Alpes - B.P.53
F-38041 Grenoble Cedex 9 
Tel: +33 (0)4 76 63 57 78
__________________________________

_______________________________________________
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at mules333 at gmail.com <mailto:mules333 at gmail.com> 
<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1 <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1> &unsubconfirm=1">
Click here to unsubscribe
</a>

 <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 

Garanti sans virus.  <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> www.avg.com

-- 
__________________________________

François Hénault
Ingénieur de Recherche
Institut de Planétologie et d’Astrophysique de Grenoble (IPAG)
UMR CNRS 5274
Bâtiment OSUG-A, Porte 65
414, Rue de la Piscine 
Université Grenoble-Alpes - B.P.53
F-38041 Grenoble Cedex 9 
Tel: +33 (0)4 76 63 57 78
__________________________________

_______________________________________________ If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at af.kracklauer at web.de <mailto:af.kracklauer at web.de>  Click here to unsubscribe  <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/pipermail/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/attachments/20170926/20fdbbc0/attachment.htm>