[General] Foundational questions Tension field stable particles

Albrecht Giese phys at a-giese.de
Fri Feb 23 12:01:36 PST 2018


Hi Wolf, and hi Chandra,

comments and answers down in the text:


Am 23.02.2018 um 05:28 schrieb Wolfgang Baer:
>
> Albrecht:
>
> "Whenever an observer is in a magnetic field, he can find a motion 
> state so that the magnetic field disappears."
>
> I've heard this many times but now that you said it, and I'm no longer 
> a student so I have time to wonder ,
>
> there is a coil of wire in front of me I feel a magnetic field exactly 
> how would I move to make it disappear? And what other forces would I 
> experience to maintain that motion?
>
This may be explainable stepwise. In the first step use a coil of wire 
with only one moving charge in it. Now have a test charge at the side 
outside the coil. This test charge will see the electrostatic force 
according to the Coulomb law, but nothing more. If this test charge is 
not at rest but moving then in the frame of the test charge nothing 
changes, Coulomb still applies. But if an observer at rest measures the 
electrostatic force between both in _his _frame, he will see a different 
force acting on the test charge. This can be also calculated using the 
Lorentz transformation with respect to force. This difference is called 
"magnetism". If now the observer moves with the test charge he will only 
see the electrostatic force like the test charge itself does, so no 
magnetism.
If there in not only one charge in the coil but a lot of them, there 
will be a superposition of all applying forces. Now an observer who 
wants to escape the magnetic field will have to find a new frame which 
takes into account this superposition.
>
> The electron velocity in a wire is quite low and I can increase the 
> current and keep the velocity the same thus increase the magnetic 
> field so if I rotate around the center axis of the loop I can make the 
> charges stand still and there should be no magnetic field - maybe but 
> now we have to ask how do I measure the magnetic field to reach this 
> conclusion?
>
A magnetic field is generally measured in the way that the force on a 
charge is measured and the result is compared to the expected Coulomb 
force. If there is an excess of force, it is magnetism.
>
> well if I place another wire loop the electrons in both wires move at 
> the same velocity and by the argument above they would not "see" the 
> electrons in the other ring moving but they would certainly feel a 
> magnetic field and the two loops would attract each other
>
The electrons in one loop will of course "see" the electrons in the 
other one. If both wires are overcharged with electrons then there will 
be the repelling Coulomb force. But in the normal case in practise the 
wires are electrically neutral. And a current means that negative 
charges (here electrons) are moving into one direction and positive 
charges (the corresponding positive "holes" of charge) are moving into 
the other direction. Now, what will a test electron notice which moves 
outside along the wire? It will see the charges moving into the opposite 
direction relativistically contracted, the co-moving ones not (or 
precisely: extended). And so the test electron will see a different 
density of charges (for the positive and negative ones) and so a 
resulting field (which an electron at rest will not see). The resulting 
force which is only noticeable by a moving test charge is called magnetism.

There is a video of Versitasium which shows this quite illustrative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0
>
> What am I missing?
>
Was this understandable?
Albrecht
>
> Wolf
>
> Dr. Wolfgang Baer
> Research Director
> Nascent Systems Inc.
> tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
> E-mailwolf at NascentInc.com
> On 2/22/2018 11:26 AM, Albrecht Giese wrote:
>>
>> Chandra,
>>
>> I like very much what you have written here. Particularly what you 
>> say about "time" which physically means oscillations. That is what 
>> one should keep in mind when thinking about relativity.
>>
>> However in one point I have to object. That is your judgement of the 
>> parameter µ. I think that it is a result from the historical fact 
>> that magnetism was detected long time earlier than electricity. So 
>> magnetism plays a great role in our view of physics which does not 
>> reflect its role there. We know since about 100 years that magnetism 
>> is not a primary phenomenon but an apparent effect, a side effect of 
>> the electric field which is caused by the finiteness of c. If c would 
>> be infinite there would not be any magnetism. This is given by the 
>> equation c^2 = (1/ϵµ) which you have mentioned. This equation should 
>> be better written as µ= (1/c^2 ϵ) to reflect this physical fact, the 
>> dependency of the magnetism on c.
>>
>> The symmetry between electricity and magnetism is suggested by 
>> Maxwell's equation. These equations are mathematically very elegant 
>> and well usable in practice. But they do not reflect the physical 
>> reality. Easiest visible is the fact that we have electrical 
>> monopoles but no magnetic monopoles. Einstein has described this fact 
>> by saying: Whenever an observer is in a magnetic field, he can find a 
>> motion state so that the magnetic field disappears. - This is as we 
>> know not possible for an electric field.
>>
>> I think that we have discussed this earlier. Do you remember?
>>
>> Albrecht
>>
>> Am 21.02.2018 um 00:00 schrieb Roychoudhuri, Chandra:
>>>
>>> /“We nee//d a geometry in which both space and time are curved back 
>>> on themselves to provide a donut in which the forces Fem, Fgi, 
>>> Fcm,Fmc are self contained eigen states at each action quanta. /
>>>
>>> /Does any of this suggest a tension field you might be thinking 
>>> about??”/
>>>
>>> Yes, Wolf, we need to model mathematically the “twists and turns” of 
>>> different intrinsic potential gradients embedded in CTF (Complex 
>>> Tension Field) to create stationary self-looped oscillations 
>>> (*/field-particles/*). Maxwell achieved that for the propagating 
>>> linear excitations using his brilliant observations of using the 
>>> double differentiation – giving us the EM wave equation. We need to 
>>> find non-propagating (stationary – Newton’s first law) self-looped 
>>> oscillations – the in-phase ones will be stable, others will “break 
>>> apart” with different life-times depending upon how far they are 
>>> from the in-phase closed-loop conditions. The successes of the 
>>> mathematical oscillatory dynamic model could be judged by the number 
>>> of predicted properties the theory can find for the 
>>> */field-particles,/* which we have measured so far. The physical CTF 
>>> must remain stationary holding 100% of the cosmic energy.
>>>
>>>     However, I would not attempt to keep the primacy of Relativity 
>>> by trying to keep the Space-Time 4-D concept intact. If we want to 
>>> capture the ontological reality; we must imagine and visualize the 
>>> potential */foundational/* physical process and represent that with 
>>> a set of algebraic symbols and call them the primary parameters of 
>>> “different grades”. During constructing mathematical theories, it is 
>>> of prime importance to introduce consciously this concept of 
>>> “primary”, vs. “secondary”, vs. “tertiary”, etc., physical 
>>> parameters related to any observable physical phenomenon. The 
>>> physical parameter that dictates the core existence of an entity in 
>>> nature should be considered as primary. However, it is not going to 
>>> be easy because of the complexities in the different interaction 
>>> processes – different parameters take key role in transferring the 
>>> energy in different interactions. Besides, our ignorance is still 
>>> significantly broad compared to the “validated” knowledge we have 
>>> gathered about our universe. Here is a glaring example. νλ = c = 
>>> (1/ϵµ). If I am doing atomic physics, ν is of primary importance 
>>> because of the quantum resonance with ν and the QM energy exchange 
>>> rule is “hν”.   “λ” changes from medium to medium. If I am doing 
>>> Astrophysics, ϵ and µ for free space, are of primary significance; 
>>> even though people tend to use “c”, while missing out the 
>>> fundamental roles of ϵ and µ as some of the core building blocks of 
>>> the universe. Funny thing is that the ϵ and µ of free space were 
>>> recognized well before Maxwell synthesized Electromagnetism.
>>>
>>>     With this background, I want underscore that the “running time, 
>>> “t” is of critical importance in our formulation of the dynamic 
>>> universe. And, yet “t’ is not a directly measurable physical 
>>> parameter of any object in this universe. What we measure is really 
>>> the frequency, or its inverse, the oscillation periods of different 
>>> physical oscillators in this universe. So, frequency can be dilated 
>>> or contracted by controlling the ambient physical parameter of the 
>>> environment that surrounds and INFLUENCES the oscillator. The 
>>> running time cannot be dilated or contracted; even though Minkowsky 
>>> introduced this “dilation” concept. This is the reason why I have 
>>> been pushing for the introduction in physics thinking the 
>>> Interaction Process Mapping Epistemology (IPM-E).
>>>
>>> Chandra.
>>>
>>> *From:*General 
>>> [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]*On 
>>> Behalf Of *Wolfgang Baer
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 19, 2018 10:56 PM
>>> *To:* general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [General] Foundational questions Tension field stable 
>>> particles
>>>
>>> Candra:
>>>
>>>  Let’s consider your tension filed is a medium underlying the 
>>> experience of space composed of charge and mass density spread out 
>>> in the cross-section of a time loop.. Coordinate frame cells of 
>>> /small enough/ sizes can be described by constant enough mass and 
>>> charge densities in each cell. For small enough cells the mass and 
>>> charge values concentrated at their centers may be used in stead of 
>>> the densities. The resulting field of center values can take any 
>>> pattern that satisfies the extended dAlambert principle. Besides the 
>>> classic electro-magnetic Fem and gravito-inertial force Fgi I 
>>> postulate forces tat hold charge and mass together Fcm, Fmc. This 
>>> condition assures mass charge centers in each cell appear at 
>>> locations of balanced forces.  Each pattern which satisfies this 
>>> condition represents a static state of the loop in which the 
>>> patterns are fixed for the lifetime of the loop.
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *The Charge-Mass Separation Vector and Equilibrium States*
>>>
>>> The physical size of the space is its volume. The  volume (Vol) of 
>>> space is the sum of the infinitesimal volumes dVol of each of the 
>>> cells composing that space “Vol = ∫_all space dVol”. These 
>>> infinitesimal volumes are calculated from the mass-charge density 
>>> extensions in each cell when viewed externally as shown in figure 
>>> 4.3-3a . The physical volume depends upon the mass charge separation 
>>> pattern of the equilibrium state the system being modeled exists in.
>>>
>>>             In CAT the extension of a cell can be calculated as 
>>> follows. In each cell the distance between the center of charge and 
>>> mass is a vector d*ζ.* The projection of this vector onto the 
>>> degrees of freedom directions available for the charge and mass to 
>>> move in the generalized coordinate space allows us to expansion this 
>>> vector as,
>>>
>>> Eq. 4.3-1 *dζ =* dζ_t *∙u_t * + dζ_x *∙u_x *+ dζ_y *∙u_y *+ dζ_z 
>>> *∙u_z +…* dζ_f *∙u_f +…,*
>>>
>>> **where the *u_f *’s are the unit vectors. A space limited to 
>>> Cartesian 3-space is characterized by three x,y,z directions, but 
>>> CAT models a generalized space that encompasses all sensor 
>>> modalities not only the optical ones.
>>>
>>>             The volume of a cell calculated from the diagonal 
>>> expansion vector “*dζ”* by multiplying all non zero coefficients,
>>>
>>> Eq. 4.3-2                     dVol = dζ_t *∙*dζ_x *∙*dζ_y *∙*dζ_z 
>>> *∙…∙*dζ_f *∙… .*
>>>
>>>             The shape of this volume is determined by the direction 
>>> of the expansion vector which in turn is determined by the direction 
>>> and strength of forces pulling the charge and mass apart. The 
>>> direction of pull depends upon the number of dimensions available in 
>>> the generalized coordinates of the media. The forces must be in 
>>> equilibrium but exact equilibrium pattern depends upon which global 
>>> loop equilibrium state “Ζ” the event being modeled is in.
>>>
>>>             In the simplest equilibrium state the masses and charges 
>>> are collocated. This implies the internal forward propagating in 
>>> time forces F_cm ,F_mc , and backward propagating in time force F_mc 
>>> *,F_cm * are zero, and if there are no internal force pulling the 
>>> charges and masses together then sum of the remaining exterior 
>>> gravito-electric forces pulling the charge and mass apart must 
>>> separately be zero precisely at the collocation point. A trivial 
>>> condition that satisfies these equations is when all forces are 
>>> zero. In this case there is no action in the media and no action for 
>>> expanding the coordinate frame defining a volume of space. We are 
>>> back to a formless blob of zero volume, where all charges and masses 
>>> are at the same point. This is the absolute ground state of 
>>> material, one level of something above nothing.  The big bang before 
>>> the energy of action flow is added.
>>>
>>> To exemplify the methods we consider an equilibrium state of a 
>>> single isolated cell whose only degree of freedom is the time 
>>> direction. This means the volume in all space directions are 
>>> infinitesimally small and the volume can be considered a single line 
>>> of extension “ΔVol = ΔT_w = ∫dζ_t “ along the time direction as 
>>> shown in the god’s eye perspective of figure 4.3-6. In this 
>>> situation we can consider charges and masses to be point particles. 
>>> Forces as well as action can only propagate along the material 
>>> length of the line time line represented in space as “Qw”. We now 
>>> list the sequence of changes that can propagate through around the 
>>> equilibrium positions indicated by numbers in parenthesis.
>>>
>>> (1)The upper charge is pushed from its equilibrium position (filled 
>>> icon) forward along the time line
>>>
>>> (2)It exerts a force “Fem” on the left charge pushing it forward 
>>> while feeling a reaction force “Fem*” that retards it back to its 
>>> equilibrium position
>>>
>>> (3)While the left charge is moved from equilibrium it exerts an 
>>> internal “Fcm” force on the bottom mass while feeling a reaction 
>>> force “Fcm*” which  returns it to equilibrium.
>>>
>>> (4)While the bottom mass is moved from equilibrium it exerts a force 
>>> “Fgi” on the right mass while feeling a reaction force “Fgi*”  which 
>>> returns it to equilibrium.
>>>
>>> (5)While the right mass is moved from equilibrium it exerts a force 
>>> “Fmc” on the upper charge while feeling a reaction force “Fmc*”  
>>> which returns it to equilibrium. We are now back to (1).
>>>
>>> If the system is isolated there is no dissipation into other degrees 
>>> of freedom and the oscillation continues to move as a compression 
>>> wave around the “Qw” time line circumference forever. The graph 
>>> however is static and shows a fixed amount of action indicated by 
>>> the shaded arrows around the time line. Motion in “block” models is 
>>> produced by the velocity of the observer or model operator as he 
>>> moves around the time line. From our god’s eye perspective an action 
>>> density is permanently painted on the clock dial and thereby 
>>> describes an total event. The last degree of freedom events are 
>>> rather trivial
>>>
>>>             We need a geometry in which both space and time are 
>>> curved back on themselves to provide a donut in which the forces 
>>> Fem, Fgi, Fcm,Fmc are self contained eigen states at each action 
>>> quanta.
>>>
>>> Does any of this suggest a tension field you might be thinking about??
>>>
>>> Dr. Wolfgang Baer
>>> Research Director
>>> Nascent Systems Inc.
>>> tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
>>> E-mailwolf at NascentInc.com <mailto:wolf at NascentInc.com>
>>>
>>> On 1/24/2018 7:20 PM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra wrote:
>>>
>>>     1. Yes, I have submitted an essay. FQXi has not sent the
>>>     approval link yet.
>>>
>>>     2. Replacement of our SPIE conf. Without a supporting
>>>     infrastructure to replace SPIE-like support, it is very
>>>     difficult to manage. I will try NSF during the last week of May.
>>>     Do you want to start negotiating with some out-of-box European
>>>     groups?
>>>
>>>     3. Re-starting afresh from the bottom up is the only way to
>>>     start re-building a unified field theory. It is futile to
>>>     force-fit whole bunch of different theories that were structured
>>>     differently at different states of human cultural epoch.
>>>
>>>     Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Jan 24, 2018, at 6:08 PM, Wolfgang Baer <wolf at nascentinc.com
>>>     <mailto:wolf at nascentinc.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Chandra:
>>>
>>>         Just rereading your 2015 paper "Urgency of evolution..."
>>>
>>>         I love the sentiment " This is a good time to start
>>>         iteratively re-evaluating and restructuring all the
>>>         foundational postulates behind all the working theories"
>>>
>>>         Did you write a paper for FQXi?
>>>
>>>         I sent one in https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3043
>>>
>>>         Is there any chance to get a replacement for the SPIE
>>>         conference, one that would expand the questions
>>>
>>>         beyond the nature of light?
>>>
>>>         Wolf
>>>
>>>         -- 
>>>
>>>         Dr. Wolfgang Baer
>>>
>>>         Research Director
>>>
>>>         Nascent Systems Inc.
>>>
>>>         tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
>>>
>>>         E-mailwolf at NascentInc.com <mailto:wolf at NascentInc.com>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
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