[General] Foundational questions Tension field stable particles

Roychoudhuri, Chandra chandra.roychoudhuri at uconn.edu
Mon Feb 26 13:02:59 PST 2018


Albrecht and the rest of our colleagues::

Albrecht: Thanks for your patience in guiding me to delve into magnetism that I never paid attention to before.
Now I see that it has deep implications in understanding (further defining properties of) the Complex Tension Field (CTF).

My current position is that nothing can be perceived by another “test object”, whether stationary or moving, unless something physically exists in the first place. What is in the space around a charge that appears as a magnetic field when the test magnetic field is in “relative motion”? Is it the temporal gradient of a static charge-field? But, then we are back again to Maxwell! Yet, I agree that Maxwell has not given us the complete final physics.
I hope this question alerts the enquiring minds of everybody in our group. I believe, it is of some fundamental importance. I will keep pondering.

Right now I am looking for money to test the existence of a stationary CTF guiding linear EM waves via “epsilon-not” and “mu-not”.

Chandra.

From: General [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of Albrecht Giese
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 3:30 PM
To: general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
Subject: Re: [General] Foundational questions Tension field stable particles


Chandra:

Let's begin with your question at the end.

It is a good and a challenging question in so far as we treat magnetism in our everyday live in a way which does not reflect the true physics behind it. Normally if we have to do it with magnetism, then it is a magnetic dipole. And when we measure a magnetic field we use another magnetic dipole, i.e. we measure the force or the angular momentum onto this test dipole.

The clean way to measure a magnetic field is to use an electric test charge. If there is a force acting on the test charge we have to check whether this force can be explained by the presence of another charge using the Coulomb law. Then we have to build the difference between the force given by the Coulomb law and the real force observed. This difference is "magnetism".

If we say that the earth has a magnetic field, we mean that it is a magnetic dipole. And we measure the field strength by the use of another magnetic dipole, we may call the latter one a "test-dipole".

Now your question regarding the Earth. To measure the magnetic field of the Earth physically, one should use an electrical test charge and measure the force on it. Now, if the earth is not electrically charged, the result will be 0. That means no magnetic field is detected. Should now the observer move together with his charge in relation to the Earch, there will be a force. That means during his motion he will see a magnetic field. - This answers your question how it can be achieved that an observer does not see a magnetic field. Normally he will not see it anyway. Our daily experience is of course different. Because if someone starts to measure the magnetism of the earth he will use a dipole as said above; with the conclusion that there is a magnetic field. And it will be extremely difficult (I think impossible) to move a dipole so that it will not see a magnetic field. The reason is simple. In a magnetic dipole, which is generally a coil with a current in it, there are always charges at some position in the coil which are in a motion state to the moving charges in the Earth, so one will register magnetism.

You mention a "magnetic body". I do not feel that this is a good way to name it. The magnetic body at the end is an electric charge. And that one is only "magnetic" if it is viewed from a certain perspective.

Then you say: A propagating EM wave has oscillating E and B vectors. A dipole oscillation induces oscillating E, which generates its own restoring force B, ...   Please have in mind that this is the understanding of Maxwell's theory. But Maxwell is good for the practical use of electromagnetism, but it does not reflect the cause of magnetism.

If you have general doubts about my description of magnetism I should say that all this is not my idea but main stream physics, can be found in textbooks e.g. about SR. However ignored by most practising main stream physicists.

Albrecht

Am 26.02.2018 um 00:25 schrieb Roychoudhuri, Chandra:
Wolf:
I think, I am more along the line of your thinking.

Albrecht:
Now I am realizing that magnetism is a very important field (pun intended ☺ that I do not fully understand. Intuitively I disagree with the explanation that “magnetic field” EMERGES only due to RELATIVE VELOCITY between a charge and an observer. Relative velocity may change the quantification by our instrument of what already exist in nature. I submit, I do not have good counter theory.

On a different angle, we human are mere interpreters of data, send to our neural network, whether by our internal body-sensors or by reading “dials” of external sensors (instruments). Interactants, inside our instruments that generate the data, are the real “observers”, if we must use this word.. Humans are not the observers, just interpreters. Therefore, the job of humans should be to develop theories that directly tries to model the interaction processes going on between the interactants inside the instruments, or in nature. Our interpretations can vary widely from person to person; but the physical transformations experienced by the interactants inside our instruments follow ontological (existing) rules of operation in nature. That is why we can get re-producible data for the same interaction process. This is the bedrock of causal physics. We can modify the strengths of interactions by introducing changes in the interaction parameter in diverse ways, including relative velocity.
     Unfortunately, my expertise on magnetism is quite limited. However, as of now, I am reluctant to accept that magnetism appears only as SR implicates. In my stationary CTF model, everything observable and their properties do emerge due to dynamic movements. But they are real, not “relative”. Can we really claim that magnetism is like Doppler Effect? The measured frequency shift is solely dependent on the relative velocity. However, the frequency of the emitted radiation is the real physical parameter of a physical entity, an EM wave packet. That is why Doppler shift varies with the relative velocity. Does the strength of magnetic field changes with the relative velocity of the detector with respect to the magnetic body?
Another angle. A propagating EM wave has oscillating E and B vectors. A dipole oscillation induces oscillating E, which generates its own restoring force B, thereby, generating the perpetually oscillating and propagating wave packet in the stationary CTF. In the biological world, cellular magnetism plays wide ranges of important functions. I will have read up on these phenomena.

Let me pose a question.
Earth and many other planets have magnetic fields due to motions in their cores.
Can an external magnetic sensor be forced to read “null magnetic field” by giving it the right velocity in the right direction?

Chandra.

From: General [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]On Behalf Of Albrecht Giese
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 3:02 PM
To: general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org<mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
Subject: Re: [General] Foundational questions Tension field stable particles


Hi Wolf, and hi Chandra,

comments and answers down in the text:

Am 23.02.2018 um 05:28 schrieb Wolfgang Baer:

Albrecht:

"Whenever an observer is in a magnetic field, he can find a motion state so that the magnetic field disappears."

I've heard this many times but now that you said it, and I'm no longer a student so I have time to wonder ,

there is a coil of wire in front of me I feel a magnetic field exactly how would I move to make it disappear? And what other forces would I experience to maintain that motion?
This may be explainable stepwise. In the first step use a coil of wire with only one moving charge in it. Now have a test charge at the side outside the coil. This test charge will see the electrostatic force according to the Coulomb law, but nothing more. If this test charge is not at rest but moving then in the frame of the test charge nothing changes, Coulomb still applies. But if an observer at rest measures the electrostatic force between both in his frame, he will see a different force acting on the test charge. This can be also calculated using the Lorentz transformation with respect to force. This difference is called "magnetism". If now the observer moves with the test charge he will only see the electrostatic force like the test charge itself does, so no magnetism.
If there in not only one charge in the coil but a lot of them, there will be a superposition of all applying forces. Now an observer who wants to escape the magnetic field will have to find a new frame which takes into account this superposition.



The electron velocity in a wire is quite low and I can increase the current and keep the velocity the same thus increase the magnetic field so if I rotate around the center axis of the loop I can make the charges stand still and there should be no magnetic field - maybe but now we have to ask how do I measure the magnetic field to reach this conclusion?
A magnetic field is generally measured in the way that the force on a charge is measured and the result is compared to the expected Coulomb force. If there is an excess of force, it is magnetism.



well if I place another wire loop the electrons in both wires move at the same velocity and by the argument above they would not "see" the electrons in the other ring moving but they would certainly feel a magnetic field and the two loops would attract each other
The electrons in one loop will of course "see" the electrons in the other one. If both wires are overcharged with electrons then there will be the repelling Coulomb force. But in the normal case in practise the wires are electrically neutral. And a current means that negative charges (here electrons) are moving into one direction and positive charges (the corresponding positive "holes" of charge) are moving into the other direction. Now, what will a test electron notice which moves outside along the wire? It will see the charges moving into the opposite direction relativistically contracted, the co-moving ones not (or precisely: extended). And so the test electron will see a different density of charges (for the positive and negative ones) and so a resulting field (which an electron at rest will not see). The resulting force which is only noticeable by a moving test charge is called magnetism.

There is a video of Versitasium which shows this quite illustrative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0



What am I missing?
Was this understandable?
Albrecht



Wolf

Dr. Wolfgang Baer

Research Director

Nascent Systems Inc.

tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432

E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com<mailto:wolf at NascentInc.com>
On 2/22/2018 11:26 AM, Albrecht Giese wrote:

Chandra,

I like very much what you have written here. Particularly what you say about "time" which physically means oscillations. That is what one should keep in mind when thinking about relativity.

However in one point I have to object. That is your judgement of the parameter µ. I think that it is a result from the historical fact that magnetism was detected long time earlier than electricity. So magnetism plays a great role in our view of physics which does not reflect its role there. We know since about 100 years that magnetism is not a primary phenomenon but an apparent effect, a side effect of the electric field which is caused by the finiteness of c. If c would be infinite there would not be any magnetism. This is given by the equation c2 = (1/ϵµ) which you have mentioned. This equation should be better written as µ = (1/c2ϵ)  to reflect this physical fact, the dependency of the magnetism on c.

The symmetry between electricity and magnetism is suggested by Maxwell's equation. These equations are mathematically very elegant and well usable in practice. But they do not reflect the physical reality. Easiest visible is the fact that we have electrical monopoles but no magnetic monopoles. Einstein has described this fact by saying: Whenever an observer is in a magnetic field, he can find a motion state so that the magnetic field disappears. - This is as we know not possible for an electric field.

I think that we have discussed this earlier. Do you remember?

Albrecht
Am 21.02.2018 um 00:00 schrieb Roychoudhuri, Chandra:
“We need a geometry in which both space and time are curved back on themselves to provide a donut in which the forces Fem, Fgi, Fcm,Fmc are self contained eigen states at each action quanta.
Does any of this suggest a tension field you might be thinking about??”

Yes, Wolf, we need to model mathematically the “twists and turns” of different intrinsic potential gradients embedded in CTF (Complex Tension Field) to create stationary self-looped oscillations (field-particles). Maxwell achieved that for the propagating linear excitations using his brilliant observations of using the double differentiation – giving us the EM wave equation. We need to find non-propagating (stationary – Newton’s first law) self-looped oscillations – the in-phase ones will be stable, others will “break apart” with different life-times depending upon how far they are from the in-phase closed-loop conditions. The successes of the mathematical oscillatory dynamic model could be judged by the number of predicted properties the theory can find for the field-particles, which we have measured so far. The physical CTF must remain stationary holding 100% of the cosmic energy.
    However, I would not attempt to keep the primacy of Relativity by trying to keep the Space-Time 4-D concept intact. If we want to capture the ontological reality; we must imagine and visualize the potential foundational physical process and represent that with a set of algebraic symbols and call them the primary parameters of “different grades”. During constructing mathematical theories, it is of prime importance to introduce consciously this concept of “primary”, vs. “secondary”, vs. “tertiary”, etc., physical parameters related to any observable physical phenomenon. The physical parameter that dictates the core existence of an entity in nature should be considered as primary. However, it is not going to be easy because of the complexities in the different interaction processes – different parameters take key role in transferring the energy in different interactions. Besides, our ignorance is still significantly broad compared to the “validated” knowledge we have gathered about our universe. Here is a glaring example. νλ = c = (1/ϵµ). If I am doing atomic physics, ν is of primary importance because of the quantum resonance with ν and the QM energy exchange rule is “hν”.   “λ” changes from medium to medium. If I am doing Astrophysics, ϵ and µ for free space, are of primary significance; even though people tend to use “c”, while missing out the fundamental roles of ϵ and µ as some of the core building blocks of the universe. Funny thing is that the ϵ and µ of free space were recognized well before Maxwell synthesized Electromagnetism.
    With this background, I want underscore that the “running time, “t” is of critical importance in our formulation of the dynamic universe. And, yet “t’ is not a directly measurable physical parameter of any object in this universe. What we measure is really the frequency, or its inverse, the oscillation periods of different physical oscillators in this universe. So, frequency can be dilated or contracted by controlling the ambient physical parameter of the environment that surrounds and INFLUENCES the oscillator. The running time cannot be dilated or contracted; even though Minkowsky introduced this “dilation” concept. This is the reason why I have been pushing for the introduction in physics thinking the Interaction Process Mapping Epistemology (IPM-E).

Chandra.


From: General [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Baer
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 10:56 PM
To: general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org<mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
Subject: Re: [General] Foundational questions Tension field stable particles


Candra:
 Let’s consider your tension filed is a medium underlying the experience of space composed of charge and mass density spread out in the cross-section of a time loop.. Coordinate frame cells of small enough sizes can be described by constant enough mass and charge densities in each cell. For small enough cells the mass and charge values concentrated at their centers may be used in stead of the densities. The resulting field of center values can take any pattern that satisfies the extended dAlambert principle. Besides the classic electro-magnetic Fem and gravito-inertial force Fgi I postulate forces tat hold charge and mass together Fcm, Fmc. This condition assures mass charge centers in each cell appear at locations of balanced forces.  Each pattern which satisfies this condition represents a static state of the loop in which the patterns are fixed for the lifetime of the loop.

The Charge-Mass Separation Vector and Equilibrium States
The physical size of the space is its volume. The  volume (Vol) of space is the sum of the infinitesimal volumes dVol of  each of the cells composing that space “Vol = ∫all space dVol”. These infinitesimal volumes are calculated from the mass-charge density extensions in each cell when viewed externally as shown in figure 4.3-3a . The physical volume depends upon the mass charge separation pattern of the equilibrium state the system being modeled exists in.
            In CAT the extension of a cell can be calculated as follows. In each cell the distance between the center of charge and mass is a vector dζ. The projection of this vector onto the degrees of freedom directions available for the charge and mass to move in the generalized coordinate space allows us to expansion this vector as,
Eq. 4.3-1                     dζ = dζt∙ut + dζx∙ux + dζy∙uy + dζz∙uz +… dζf∙uf +…,
            where the uf’s are the unit vectors. A space limited to Cartesian 3-space is characterized by three x,y,z directions, but CAT models a generalized space that encompasses all sensor modalities not only the optical ones.
            The volume of a cell calculated from the diagonal expansion vector “dζ” by multiplying all non zero coefficients,
Eq. 4.3-2                     dVol =  dζt∙dζx∙dζy∙dζz∙…∙dζf∙… .
            The shape of this volume is determined by the direction of the expansion vector which in turn is determined by the direction and strength of forces pulling the charge and mass apart. The direction of pull depends upon the number of dimensions available in the generalized coordinates of the media. The forces must be in equilibrium but exact equilibrium pattern depends upon which global loop equilibrium state “Ζ” the event being modeled is in.
            In the simplest equilibrium state the masses and charges are collocated. This implies the internal forward propagating in time forces Fcm,Fmc, and backward propagating in time force Fmc*,Fcm* are zero, and if there are no internal force pulling the charges and masses together then sum of the remaining exterior gravito-electric forces pulling the charge and mass apart must separately be zero precisely at the collocation point. A trivial condition that satisfies these equations is when all forces are zero. In this case there is no action in the media and no action for expanding the coordinate frame defining a volume of space. We are back to a formless blob of zero volume, where all charges and masses are at the same point. This is the absolute ground state of material, one level of something above nothing.  The big bang before the energy of action flow is added.
To exemplify the methods we consider an equilibrium state of a single isolated cell whose only degree of freedom is the time direction. This means the volume in all space directions are infinitesimally small and the volume can be considered a single line of extension “ΔVol = ΔTw = ∫dζt “ along the time direction as shown in the god’s eye perspective of figure 4.3-6. In this situation we can consider charges and masses to be point particles. Forces as well as action can only propagate along the material length of the line time line represented in space as “Qw”. We now list the sequence of changes that can propagate through around the equilibrium positions indicated by numbers in parenthesis.
(1)  The upper charge is pushed from its equilibrium position (filled icon) forward along the time line
(2)  It exerts a force “Fem” on the left charge pushing it forward while feeling a reaction force “Fem*” that retards it back to its equilibrium position
(3)  While the left charge is moved from equilibrium it exerts an internal “Fcm” force on the bottom mass while feeling a reaction force “Fcm*” which  returns it to equilibrium.
(4)  While the bottom mass is moved from equilibrium it exerts a force “Fgi” on the right mass while feeling a reaction force “Fgi*”  which returns it to equilibrium.
(5)  While the right mass is moved from equilibrium it exerts a force “Fmc” on the upper charge while feeling a reaction force “Fmc*”  which returns it to equilibrium. We are now back to (1).
If the system is isolated there is no dissipation into other degrees of freedom and the oscillation continues to move as a compression wave around the “Qw” time line circumference forever. The graph however is static and shows a fixed amount of action indicated by the shaded arrows around the time line. Motion in “block” models is produced by the velocity of the observer or model operator as he moves around the time line. From our god’s eye perspective an action density is permanently painted on the clock dial and thereby describes an total event. The last degree of freedom events are rather trivial
            We need a geometry in which both space and time are curved back on themselves to provide a donut in which the forces Fem, Fgi, Fcm,Fmc are self contained eigen states at each action quanta.
Does any of this suggest a tension field you might be thinking about??


Dr. Wolfgang Baer

Research Director

Nascent Systems Inc.

tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432

E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com<mailto:wolf at NascentInc.com>
On 1/24/2018 7:20 PM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra wrote:
1. Yes, I have submitted an essay. FQXi has not sent the approval link yet.
2. Replacement of our SPIE conf. Without a supporting infrastructure to replace SPIE-like support, it is very difficult to manage. I will try NSF during the last week of May. Do you want to start negotiating with some out-of-box European groups?
3. Re-starting afresh from the bottom up is the only way to start re-building a unified field theory. It is futile to force-fit whole bunch of different theories that were structured differently at different states of human cultural epoch.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 24, 2018, at 6:08 PM, Wolfgang Baer <wolf at nascentinc.com<mailto:wolf at nascentinc.com>> wrote:

Chandra:

Just rereading your 2015 paper "Urgency of evolution..."

I love the sentiment " This is a good time to start iteratively re-evaluating and restructuring all the foundational postulates behind all the working theories"

Did you write a paper for FQXi?

I sent one in  https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3043

Is there any chance to get a replacement for the SPIE conference, one that would expand the questions

beyond the nature of light?



Wolf



--

Dr. Wolfgang Baer

Research Director

Nascent Systems Inc.

tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432

E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com<mailto:wolf at NascentInc.com>
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