[General] relativistic mass

[Mark, Martin van der]

Dear Adam K,
Thank you for the quote, and isn't it a puzzling one? "The deflection is due to gravitation AND mass!!" Well that is one mass too many, in my opinion, but i think this should be interpreted as if not just Newtonion gravitation is working but, instead, general relativity (which includes corrections to the former).

John D, i have not recently responded to your comments, but thank you very much indeed for the useful explanations combined with your great sense of humor! The helicopter one with not finding the hard bits actually made it physically impossible for me to hit the small keys on my phone for a while.
Cheers!
Very best regards, Martin

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Op 8 okt. 2015 om 23:23 heeft "davidmathes8 at yahoo.com<mailto:davidmathes8 at yahoo.com>" <davidmathes8 at yahoo.com<mailto:davidmathes8 at yahoo.com>> het volgende geschreven:

Adam

For the light rays near the sun, wouldn't one need  not just E & M fields. To identify the gravitational component,one would have to rigorous eliminate effects from the weak and strong forces as well.

Also, there may be some value in considering Dirac's symmetric version of the Maxwell equations. In doing so, magnetism should be considered as a separate force, a fifth force if you will.

David

________________________________
From: Adam K <afokay at gmail.com<mailto:afokay at gmail.com>>
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org<mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [General] relativistic mass

With the danger of producing the impression that I have only read one book, Martin I thought you would enjoy this quote:

The deflection of light rays that pass near the sun is not a purely gravitational phenomenon, it is due to the fact that an electromagnetic field possesses energy and momentum, hence also mass.

>From page 1, here: http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/schrodinger-st-struc.pdf

Adam


On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Mark, Martin van der <martin.van.der.mark at philips.com<mailto:martin.van.der.mark at philips.com>> wrote:
Dear Andrew,
The paper "light is heavy" is no more, and no less, than a supposedly didactic and the only consistent explanation of special relativity and its consequences. Most important points are that there are some confusions:
1) mass is not matter
2) energy is equivalent, exactly the same as, mass: E=mc^2
3) light is massive, both in the inertial and gravitational sense, as is obvious from experiment
4) the greatest confusion is about light being massless, which indeed it would be if it couldn't/didn't move. The whole point is that light is always moving at the speed of light, so it is a non-existing limit.

Weighing a box with a molecular gas, or that of a "photon" gas give the same kind of result: the gravitational mass of the gas plus the weight of the box. Light is gravitationally deflected by large masses, experimentally. Light carries momentum and energy.

There is nothing new in what i say, it is consistent with Einsteinian relativity an represents the vision of Herman weyl too, and many others

Best, Martin

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> Op 8 okt. 2015 om 19:52 heeft Andrew Meulenberg <mules333 at gmail.com<mailto:mules333 at gmail.com>> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Dear Martin,
>
> In your "Light is Heavy" you state:
>
> "In the case of light, the rest mass is zero, but the gravitational mass equals the inertial mass, which is identical to the relativistic mass."
>
> Do you have any reference for my contention that the relativistic mass of particles is bound EM-radiation?
>
> In the case of electron/positron annihilation, restmass is converted to relativistic mass & then to radiation. However, I do not know of any text or paper that identifies relativistic mass as bound EM-radiation. Your statement is close to that.
>
> Andrew
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