[General] relativistic mass

[Adam K]

Hi Martin,

Yes, general relativity. That link references the book I keep quoting in
this discussion list, which is all about general relativity. Schrodinger
introduces the basic idea and its consequences very lucidly.

The origin of mass was always the sticking point of this theory, and was
where Einstein focused his efforts for many decades. He called the
representation of mass in the theory an *asylum ignorantiae*.

Adam






On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Mark, Martin van der <
martin.van.der.mark at philips.com> wrote:

> Dear Adam K,
> Thank you for the quote, and isn't it a puzzling one? "The deflection is
> due to gravitation AND mass!!" Well that is one mass too many, in my
> opinion, but i think this should be interpreted as if not just Newtonion
> gravitation is working but, instead, general relativity (which includes
> corrections to the former).
>
> John D, i have not recently responded to your comments, but thank you very
> much indeed for the useful explanations combined with your great sense of
> humor! The helicopter one with not finding the hard bits actually made it
> physically impossible for me to hit the small keys on my phone for a while.
> Cheers!
> Very best regards, Martin
>
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>
> Op 8 okt. 2015 om 23:23 heeft "davidmathes8 at yahoo.com" <
> davidmathes8 at yahoo.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Adam
>
> For the light rays near the sun, wouldn't one need  not just E & M fields.
> To identify the gravitational component,one would have to rigorous
> eliminate effects from the weak and strong forces as well.
>
> Also, there may be some value in considering Dirac's symmetric version of
> the Maxwell equations. In doing so, magnetism should be considered as a
> separate force, a fifth force if you will.
>
> David
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Adam K <afokay at gmail.com>
> *To:* Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <
> general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 8, 2015 12:41 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [General] relativistic mass
>
> With the danger of producing the impression that I have only read one
> book, Martin I thought you would enjoy this quote:
>
> *The deflection of light rays that pass near the sun is not a purely
> gravitational phenomenon, it is due to the fact that an electromagnetic
> field possesses energy and momentum, hence also mass.*
>
> From page 1, here:
> http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/schrodinger-st-struc.pdf
>
> Adam
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Mark, Martin van der <
> martin.van.der.mark at philips.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Andrew,
> The paper "light is heavy" is no more, and no less, than a supposedly
> didactic and the only consistent explanation of special relativity and its
> consequences. Most important points are that there are some confusions:
> 1) mass is not matter
> 2) energy is equivalent, exactly the same as, mass: E=mc^2
> 3) light is massive, both in the inertial and gravitational sense, as is
> obvious from experiment
> 4) the greatest confusion is about light being massless, which indeed it
> would be if it couldn't/didn't move. The whole point is that light is
> always moving at the speed of light, so it is a non-existing limit.
>
> Weighing a box with a molecular gas, or that of a "photon" gas give the
> same kind of result: the gravitational mass of the gas plus the weight of
> the box. Light is gravitationally deflected by large masses,
> experimentally. Light carries momentum and energy.
>
> There is nothing new in what i say, it is consistent with Einsteinian
> relativity an represents the vision of Herman weyl too, and many others
>
> Best, Martin
>
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>
> > Op 8 okt. 2015 om 19:52 heeft Andrew Meulenberg <mules333 at gmail.com>
> het volgende geschreven:
> >
> > Dear Martin,
> >
> > In your "Light is Heavy" you state:
> >
> > "In the case of light, the rest mass is zero, but the gravitational mass
> equals the inertial mass, which is identical to the relativistic mass."
> >
> > Do you have any reference for my contention that the relativistic mass
> of particles is bound EM-radiation?
> >
> > In the case of electron/positron annihilation, restmass is converted to
> relativistic mass & then to radiation. However, I do not know of any text
> or paper that identifies relativistic mass as bound EM-radiation. Your
> statement is close to that.
> >
> > Andrew
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