[General] relativistic mass
Wolfgang Baer
wolf at nascentinc.com
Thu Oct 8 21:24:29 PDT 2015
Has anyone ever measured the gravitational weight of light in a bottle?
Does a hot hollow ball weigh more than a cold one?
WOlf
Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com
On 10/8/2015 3:51 PM, Adam K wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> Yes, general relativity. That link references the book I keep quoting
> in this discussion list, which is all about general relativity.
> Schrodinger introduces the basic idea and its consequences very lucidly.
>
> The origin of mass was always the sticking point of this theory, and
> was where Einstein focused his efforts for many decades. He called the
> representation of mass in the theory an /asylum ignorantiae/.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Mark, Martin van der
> <martin.van.der.mark at philips.com
> <mailto:martin.van.der.mark at philips.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear Adam K,
> Thank you for the quote, and isn't it a puzzling one? "The
> deflection is due to gravitation AND mass!!" Well that is one mass
> too many, in my opinion, but i think this should be interpreted as
> if not just Newtonion gravitation is working but, instead, general
> relativity (which includes corrections to the former).
>
> John D, i have not recently responded to your comments, but thank
> you very much indeed for the useful explanations combined with
> your great sense of humor! The helicopter one with not finding the
> hard bits actually made it physically impossible for me to hit the
> small keys on my phone for a while.
> Cheers!
> Very best regards, Martin
>
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>
> Op 8 okt. 2015 om 23:23 heeft "davidmathes8 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:davidmathes8 at yahoo.com>" <davidmathes8 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:davidmathes8 at yahoo.com>> het volgende geschreven:
>
>> Adam
>>
>> For the light rays near the sun, wouldn't one need not just E &
>> M fields. To identify the gravitational component,one would have
>> to rigorous eliminate effects from the weak and strong forces as
>> well.
>>
>> Also, there may be some value in considering Dirac's symmetric
>> version of the Maxwell equations. In doing so, magnetism should
>> be considered as a separate force, a fifth force if you will.
>>
>> David
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Adam K <afokay at gmail.com <mailto:afokay at gmail.com>>
>> *To:* Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
>> <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>> <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 8, 2015 12:41 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [General] relativistic mass
>>
>> With the danger of producing the impression that I have only
>> read one book, Martin I thought you would enjoy this quote:
>>
>> /The deflection of light rays that pass near the sun is not a
>> purely gravitational phenomenon, it is due to the fact that
>> an electromagnetic field possesses energy and momentum, hence
>> also mass./
>>
>> From page 1, here:
>> http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/schrodinger-st-struc.pdf
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Mark, Martin van der
>> <martin.van.der.mark at philips.com
>> <mailto:martin.van.der.mark at philips.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Andrew,
>> The paper "light is heavy" is no more, and no less, than
>> a supposedly didactic and the only consistent explanation
>> of special relativity and its consequences. Most
>> important points are that there are some confusions:
>> 1) mass is not matter
>> 2) energy is equivalent, exactly the same as, mass: E=mc^2
>> 3) light is massive, both in the inertial and
>> gravitational sense, as is obvious from experiment
>> 4) the greatest confusion is about light being massless,
>> which indeed it would be if it couldn't/didn't move. The
>> whole point is that light is always moving at the speed
>> of light, so it is a non-existing limit.
>>
>> Weighing a box with a molecular gas, or that of a
>> "photon" gas give the same kind of result: the
>> gravitational mass of the gas plus the weight of the box.
>> Light is gravitationally deflected by large masses,
>> experimentally. Light carries momentum and energy.
>>
>> There is nothing new in what i say, it is consistent with
>> Einsteinian relativity an represents the vision of Herman
>> weyl too, and many others
>>
>> Best, Martin
>>
>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>>
>> > Op 8 okt. 2015 om 19:52 heeft Andrew Meulenberg
>> <mules333 at gmail.com <mailto:mules333 at gmail.com>> het
>> volgende geschreven:
>> >
>> > Dear Martin,
>> >
>> > In your "Light is Heavy" you state:
>> >
>> > "In the case of light, the rest mass is zero, but the
>> gravitational mass equals the inertial mass, which is
>> identical to the relativistic mass."
>> >
>> > Do you have any reference for my contention that the
>> relativistic mass of particles is bound EM-radiation?
>> >
>> > In the case of electron/positron annihilation, restmass
>> is converted to relativistic mass & then to radiation.
>> However, I do not know of any text or paper that
>> identifies relativistic mass as bound EM-radiation. Your
>> statement is close to that.
>> >
>> > Andrew
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