[General] relativistic mass

Sat Oct 10 10:26:26 PDT 2015

Dear Albrecht,

Can you provide additional insight or references to the application of a
refraction calculation to the zitterbewegung? I had been thinking of
gravitational lensing as refraction of a wavefront and am curious to learn
how it can be applied to zitter to get GR!

Regards,

Michael
On Oct 9, 2015 3:56 AM, "Dr. Albrecht Giese" <genmail at a-giese.de> wrote:

> Hi Al, and All,
>
> the greatest counter-evidence to the position of Ed Dowdy which I know is
> the result of Lebach et al.. They have measured the light deflection at the
> sun, and the result conforms to the theory (of Einstein or equivalent ones,
> see further down) with an accuracy of 10^-4. This excludes in my
> understanding any influence of a plasma layer around the sun, because even
> if there would be plasma having this influence, there could not be exactly
> the same result as from conventional theory by this precision, and plasma
> could not even provide this reproducibility. Dowdy normally refers to
> measurements of NASA but has never given a reference to such measurements.
>
> The deflection is, according to Einstein, caused by the curvature of
> space-time around the sun. It can also be deduced in an alternative way.
> The speed of light is reduced in the vicinity of an object. This causes
> classical refraction. An according calculation has the same analytical(!)
> result as the approach of Einstein. And it makes the assumption plausible
> that the mass of the deflected object does not influence this
> deflection/refraction.
>
> One can go a step further and apply this refraction process to the
> internal motion in elementary particles, the "Zitterbewegung". This
> immediately results in Newton's law of gravity. And it also reproduces the
> results of Einstein's General Relativity. And further it explains the
> (weak) equivalence principle, the fact that any object has the same
> gravitational acceleration independent of its mass. (In present main stream
> physics this equivalence is called a mystery.)
>
> The next question in this row: what is the cause of the reduction of the
> speed of light. A plausible assumption is that the light like particles
> affected here are influence by the exchange particles of other forces. With
> this assumption gravity is not the force no. 4 but no force at all. It is
> simply refraction.
>
> Albrecht
>
>
> Am 09.10.2015 um 09:40 schrieb af.kracklauer at web.de:
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> Is there counterevidence to Ed Dowdy's observation that there is NO light
> defection about the Sun for rays not passing through the corona where they
> must be diverted as plasma waves?
>
> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 09. Oktober 2015 um 06:24 Uhr
> *Von:* "Wolfgang Baer" <wolf at nascentinc.com> <wolf at nascentinc.com>
> *An:* general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [General] relativistic mass
> Has anyone ever measured the gravitational weight of light in a bottle?
> Does a hot hollow ball weigh more than a cold one?
>
> WOlf
>
> Dr. Wolfgang Baer
> Research Director
> Nascent Systems Inc.
> tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
> E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com
>
> On 10/8/2015 3:51 PM, Adam K wrote:
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> Yes, general relativity. That link references the book I keep quoting in
> this discussion list, which is all about general relativity. Schrodinger
> introduces the basic idea and its consequences very lucidly.
>
> The origin of mass was always the sticking point of this theory, and was
> where Einstein focused his efforts for many decades. He called the
> representation of mass in the theory an *asylum ignorantiae*.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Mark, Martin van der <
> martin.van.der.mark at philips.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Adam K,
>> Thank you for the quote, and isn't it a puzzling one? "The deflection is
>> due to gravitation AND mass!!" Well that is one mass too many, in my
>> opinion, but i think this should be interpreted as if not just Newtonion
>> gravitation is working but, instead, general relativity (which includes
>> corrections to the former).
>>
>> John D, i have not recently responded to your comments, but thank you
>> very much indeed for the useful explanations combined with your great sense
>> of humor! The helicopter one with not finding the hard bits actually made
>> it physically impossible for me to hit the small keys on my phone for a
>> while.
>> Cheers!
>> Very best regards, Martin
>>
>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>>
>> Op 8 okt. 2015 om 23:23 heeft "davidmathes8 at yahoo.com" <
>> davidmathes8 at yahoo.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> For the light rays near the sun, wouldn't one need  not just E & M
>> fields. To identify the gravitational component,one would have to rigorous
>> eliminate effects from the weak and strong forces as well.
>>
>> Also, there may be some value in considering Dirac's symmetric version of
>> the Maxwell equations. In doing so, magnetism should be considered as a
>> separate force, a fifth force if you will.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Adam K <afokay at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <
>> general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 8, 2015 12:41 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [General] relativistic mass
>>
>> With the danger of producing the impression that I have only read one
>> book, Martin I thought you would enjoy this quote:
>>
>> *The deflection of light rays that pass near the sun is not a purely
>> gravitational phenomenon, it is due to the fact that an electromagnetic
>> field possesses energy and momentum, hence also mass.*
>>
>> From page 1, here:
>> http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/schrodinger-st-struc.pdf
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Mark, Martin van der <
>> martin.van.der.mark at philips.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Andrew,
>> The paper "light is heavy" is no more, and no less, than a supposedly
>> didactic and the only consistent explanation of special relativity and its
>> consequences. Most important points are that there are some confusions:
>> 1) mass is not matter
>> 2) energy is equivalent, exactly the same as, mass: E=mc^2
>> 3) light is massive, both in the inertial and gravitational sense, as is
>> obvious from experiment
>> 4) the greatest confusion is about light being massless, which indeed it
>> would be if it couldn't/didn't move. The whole point is that light is
>> always moving at the speed of light, so it is a non-existing limit.
>>
>> Weighing a box with a molecular gas, or that of a "photon" gas give the
>> same kind of result: the gravitational mass of the gas plus the weight of
>> the box. Light is gravitationally deflected by large masses,
>> experimentally. Light carries momentum and energy.
>>
>> There is nothing new in what i say, it is consistent with Einsteinian
>> relativity an represents the vision of Herman weyl too, and many others
>>
>> Best, Martin
>>
>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>>
>> > Op 8 okt. 2015 om 19:52 heeft Andrew Meulenberg <mules333 at gmail.com>
>> het volgende geschreven:
>> >
>> > Dear Martin,
>> >
>> > In your "Light is Heavy" you state:
>> >
>> > "In the case of light, the rest mass is zero, but the gravitational
>> mass equals the inertial mass, which is identical to the relativistic mass."
>> >
>> > Do you have any reference for my contention that the relativistic mass
>> of particles is bound EM-radiation?
>> >
>> > In the case of electron/positron annihilation, restmass is converted to
>> relativistic mass & then to radiation. However, I do not know of any text
>> or paper that identifies relativistic mass as bound EM-radiation. Your
>> statement is close to that.
>> >
>> > Andrew
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light
>> and Particles General Discussion List at martin.van.der.mark at philips.com
>> > <a href="
>> http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1
>> ">
>> > Click here to unsubscribe
>> > </a>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally
>> protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the
>> addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>> notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this
>> message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the
>> intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy
>> all copies of the original message.
>> _______________________________________________
>> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light
>> and Particles General Discussion List at afokay at gmail.com
>> <a href="
>> http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/afokay%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Click here to unsubscribe
>> </a>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light
>> and Particles General Discussion List at davidmathes8 at yahoo.com
>> <a href="
>> http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1
>> ">
>> Click here to unsubscribe
>> </a>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light
>> and Particles General Discussion List at martin.van.der.mark at philips.com
>> <a href="
>> http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1
>> ">
>> Click here to unsubscribe
>> </a>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light
>> and Particles General Discussion List at afokay at gmail.com
>> <a href="
>> http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/afokay%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1
>> ">
>> Click here to unsubscribe
>> </a>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at Wolf at nascentinc.com
> <a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1>>
> Click here to unsubscribe
> </a>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ If you no longer wish to
> receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General
> Discussion List at af.kracklauer at web.de Click here to unsubscribe
> <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at phys at a-giese.de
> <a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1>>
> Click here to unsubscribe
> </a>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light
> and Particles General Discussion List at michael.b.mercury at gmail.com
> <a href="
> http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/michael.b.mercury%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1
> ">
> Click here to unsubscribe
> </a>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/pipermail/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/attachments/20151010/7d6f5b4e/attachment.htm>