[General] Grahame note on population

Mon Aug 22 11:51:00 PDT 2016

I fully agree however tend to take the hopeful view that if science 
comes up with a better mouse trap the political forces will follow

I think science needs to step up to that challenge, right now after a 
century of quantum theory we have a mess rather than clearity.

best

wolf

Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com

On 8/21/2016 2:21 PM, Hodge John wrote:
> Wolf
> "Who can argue with learning and following nature's rules..."
> Appearently, the majority of people in the US and EU. Notice that the 
> people wanting to limit (much less eliminate) support for the poor, 
> sick, infirm, etc. are consistently voted out of office. the same 
> happened in Greece a few years ago. The socialists won and Greece 
> still suffers.
> The Malthus catastrophy can be averted by many other methods. I noted 
> the polenisian islander method. Another is to abandon humaniterianism 
> as a moral model. The growth of the US paper suggests that the states 
> compete to find the optimal social organization for humanity rather 
> than the federal government regulating failed programs.
> The baby boomer generation's children and grandchildren with their 
> humanitarianism ideals may ( I think will) cause collapse before any 
> deregulation takes place.
> I think that science can avert much of the loomng catastrophy if it is 
> allowed to do so. However,
> the emphasis in science is to inhibit truely new models. Look at how 
> new QM ideas are suppressed (not published and rejected). Not even 
> experimental data rejecting current status quo will be accepted. I was 
> told before "Your experiment is contradiced by the standard model, 
> therefore it is wrong.)
> Well, NOL and some few others may help change this but as we 
> experience in NOL it is not working.
> How can we get a magizine with the criteria for publication of quality 
> of the writing, quality of the arguement, self--coherence, validity of 
> the experiment/obervation, etc. Rather the adherence to standard 
> models. Getting  new paradym isn't the problem - NOL has suggested 
> many. The problem is in having the model examined by the community 
> which requires fertile ground for at least examining and publication.
> This may seem a weirdtopic for NOL. But it is a fundamental problem 
> for the reason that NOL exists.
> Hodge
>
>
>
> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 3:26 PM, Wolfgang Baer 
> <wolf at nascentinc.com> wrote:
>
>
> John:
> Who can argue with learning and following nature's rules , however two 
> thoughts
> 1) the Malthus catastrophe has always been averted by technology 
> breakthrough which improved our ecological nitch
>     I see no reason we need to be stuck in the current paradigm , but 
> I believe we need to examine the foundations of our physics, 
> philosophy, and world view package we have been saddled with during 
> the 20'th century. Quantum theory may have helped build some systems, 
> but  it is not comprehensible without major ad hoc miracles attached. 
> We need a new way of looking at things.
> 2) Is it possible that our current defeatist attitude regarding 
> technology is due to the aging process. WE now have baby boomers 
> retiring and they just want a steady as she goes peaceful last years 
> with no challenges.
> Perhaps we need to wait tll the baby boomer generation has passed?
> best
> Wolf
>
>
> Dr. Wolfgang Baer
> Research Director
> Nascent Systems Inc.
> tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
> E-mailwolf at NascentInc.com <mailto:wolf at NascentInc.com>
> On 8/21/2016 11:46 AM, Hodge John wrote:
>> Grahame:
>> I echo your concern for humanity's future. I suggest Nature (or 
>> natural laws) has controlled the overpopulation problems of species 
>> and humanity. All we really need to do is determine nature's rules 
>> and follow them. Unfortunately society is currently deviating from 
>> nature's rules. The result has historically been catastrophic for 
>> humanity as noted by Malthus's catastrophe. Our self-control can 
>> avert such a catastrophe. Note the Chinese attempt was contrary to 
>> Nature's rules. The Chinese slowed the birth of healthy children and 
>> supported the growth of sick and infirm children.
>>
>> A child born with a severe disability is a sink for resources that 
>> may be better spent on advancing humanity (healthy children). Ancient 
>> societies lacking technology let the disabled die. The Polynesians on 
>> their island had a socially accepted way to commit suicide so the 
>> island resources would not be over-taxed. I society doesn't accept 
>> nature's laws; Nature will kill that society (the weak certainly and 
>> many of the strong). Thus the current ongoing collapse of the US (and 
>> western society) will continue. Many of the characteristics of 
>> collapse of modern society have been present for several decades [pp. 
>> 209-216] Tainter,~J.~A., 1990. ``The Collapse of Complex Societies''.
>>
>> On a larger scale, humanitarianism harms society by other causes of 
>> failure. Humanitarianism induces a strong trend toward conformity 
>> (being Politically Correct). This is a need to maintain the status 
>> quo and to reject advances in science. Historically, societies that 
>> stop scientific advance loose wars to societies that bring scientific 
>> advances.
>>
>> <A HREF="http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1093" 
>> <http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1093>>Growth challenge 
>> of the United States</A>
>>
>>
>> This is a criteria and method/rules for developing advances in science:
>> <A HREF="http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1757" 
>> <http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1757>>STOE emergence</A>
>>
>> Hodge
>>
>>
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