[General] Grahame note on population

Sun Aug 21 14:21:56 PDT 2016

Wolf"Who can argue with learning and following nature's rules..."
Appearently, the majority of people in the US and EU. Notice that the people wanting to limit (much less eliminate) support for the poor, sick, infirm, etc. are consistently voted out of office. the same happened in Greece a few years ago. The socialists won and Greece still suffers.The Malthus catastrophy can be averted by many other methods. I noted the polenisian islander method. Another is to abandon humaniterianism as a moral model. The growth of the US paper suggests that the states compete to find the optimal social organization for humanity rather than the federal government regulating failed programs.The baby boomer generation's children and grandchildren with their humanitarianism ideals may ( I think will) cause collapse before any deregulation takes place.I think that science can avert much of the loomng catastrophy if it is allowed to do so. However, 
the emphasis in science is to inhibit truely new models. Look at how new QM ideas are suppressed (not published and rejected). Not even experimental data rejecting current status quo will be accepted. I was told before "Your experiment is contradiced by the standard model, therefore it is wrong.)
Well, NOL and some few others may help change this but as we experience in NOL it is not working.How can we get a magizine with the criteria for publication of quality of the writing, quality of the arguement, self--coherence, validity of the experiment/obervation, etc. Rather the adherence to standard models. Getting  new paradym isn't the problem - NOL has suggested many. The problem is in having the model examined by the community which requires fertile ground for at least examining and publication. This may seem a weirdtopic for NOL. But it is a fundamental problem for the reason that NOL exists. Hodge

    On Sunday, August 21, 2016 3:26 PM, Wolfgang Baer <wolf at nascentinc.com> wrote:

  John: Who can argue with learning and following nature's rules , however two thoughts 1) the Malthus catastrophe has always been averted by technology breakthrough which improved our ecological nitch     I see no reason we need to be stuck in the current paradigm , but I believe we need to examine the foundations of our physics, philosophy, and world view package we have been saddled with during the 20'th century. Quantum theory may have helped build some systems, but  it is not comprehensible without major ad hoc miracles attached. We need a new way of looking at things. 
  2) Is it possible that our current defeatist attitude regarding technology is due to the aging process. WE now have baby boomers retiring and they just want a steady as she goes peaceful last years with no challenges. 
  Perhaps we need to wait tll the baby boomer generation has passed? best Wolf

  Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com On 8/21/2016 11:46 AM, Hodge John wrote:

   Grahame:
 I echo your concern for humanity's future. I suggest Nature (or natural laws) has controlled the overpopulation problems of species and humanity. All we really need to do is determine nature's rules and follow them. Unfortunately society is currently deviating from nature's rules. The result has historically been catastrophic for humanity as noted by Malthus's catastrophe. Our self-control can avert such a catastrophe. Note the Chinese attempt was contrary to Nature's rules. The Chinese slowed the birth of healthy children and supported the growth of sick and infirm children. 
  A child born with a severe disability is a sink for resources that may be better spent on advancing humanity (healthy children). Ancient societies lacking technology let the disabled die. The Polynesians on their island had a socially accepted way to commit suicide so the island resources would not be  over-taxed. I society doesn't accept nature's laws; Nature will kill that society (the weak certainly and many of the strong). Thus the current ongoing collapse of the US (and western society) will continue. Many of the characteristics of collapse of modern society have been present for several decades [pp. 209-216] Tainter,~J.~A., 1990. ``The Collapse of Complex Societies''.  
  On a larger scale, humanitarianism harms society by other causes of failure. Humanitarianism induces a strong trend toward conformity (being Politically Correct). This is a need to maintain the status quo and to reject advances in science. Historically, societies that stop scientific advance loose wars to societies that bring scientific advances.  
  <A HREF="http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1093">Growth challenge of the United States</A> 

 This is a criteria and method/rules for developing advances in science:
 <A HREF="http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1757">STOE emergence</A> 
  Hodge

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