[General] light and particles group; Pilot Wave unnecessary

Tue Jan 24 19:26:44 PST 2017

ChandraI have a definite model - STOEIt has predicted in 2006 results of observations published in 2009.It has first formed an equation that predicted the outcome of an experiment that, when done, showed the results as predicted. (Hodge experiment that rejected wave models of light).
I think you and others already accept a "pilor wave" type model - General relativity.Matter warps "space" (a continuous medium) and "space" directs matter The properties of "space" are the pilot wave medium of QM. The problem for Bohm is to identify the source of the wave. Consider a one photon at a time in Young's Experiment When the photon is between the mask and screen, things can become very complex regarding the pilot wave - or very simple. The simple is the photon creates the wave in the "space" like GR.Your tension field could be my plenum or GR's "space"?Hodge

    On Tuesday, January 24, 2017 9:04 PM, Albrecht <genmail at a-giese.de> wrote:

  Hi Chandra,

 I think I have to explain here again the basics.

 In my model, there are two sub-particles (I have called them Basic Particles) which are multipoles build by charges of the strong force. The multipoles are built in a way that they have a potential minimum at a certain distance. This distance defines the diameter of the particle. That is it. Both basic particles  do not have a mass and they orbit each other at the speed of light. In this way they cause the relativistic dilation. The inertial mass is caused by the fact that they are forced to have a distance to each other. Every constellation which has internally a distance has inertia. This is a very fundamental physical fact which cannot be negated. The binding field extends to any direction which means that this field surrounds the particle. As it is a multipole field it has a limited range. And as both basic particles are orbiting, this field is an alternating field. If the whole elementary particle is in motion then this alternating field accompanies the particle. This field fulfils the function of de Broglie's pilot wave. It is a simple set up which does not cause any difficult complications.
 The orbital motion is the cause of the spin of a particle. The constancy of the spin is a consequence of this set up, also not complicated. All particle properties follow from calculations which are simple (not repeated here but on my web site) and they are solely based on classical physics.The results are very  precise for the known particles like the leptons and quarks.

 I shall stop this introduction here (and remind you that I have represented it in Mexico and and San Diego every time and I am a bit shocked that so little has reached the community). I present this model here in Germany every year on physical conferences since 2001 and my auditory is growing from year to year,  meanwhile I am filling the greater lecture halls at these occasions. My web site about  the topic "origin of mass" is internationally the number one in all major search engines since 15 years, no physical institute in the world could ever compete  with it. So it is quite confusing for me that particularly in this group I seems difficult to reach the members. 

 Of course I am willing to answer any questions but should stop here for the moment.

 Best regards
 Albrecht

 Am 25.01.2017 um 00:21 schrieb Roychoudhuri, Chandra:

#yiv5815091258 #yiv5815091258 -- _filtered #yiv5815091258 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5815091258 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5815091258 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5815091258 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv5815091258 #yiv5815091258 p.yiv5815091258MsoNormal, #yiv5815091258 li.yiv5815091258MsoNormal, #yiv5815091258 div.yiv5815091258MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;color:black;}#yiv5815091258 a:link, #yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5815091258 a:visited, #yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5815091258 p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;color:black;}#yiv5815091258 pre {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;color:black;}#yiv5815091258 p.yiv5815091258MsoAcetate, #yiv5815091258 li.yiv5815091258MsoAcetate, #yiv5815091258 div.yiv5815091258MsoAcetate {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;color:black;}#yiv5815091258 p.yiv5815091258MsoListParagraph, #yiv5815091258 li.yiv5815091258MsoListParagraph, #yiv5815091258 div.yiv5815091258MsoListParagraph {margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;color:black;}#yiv5815091258 p.yiv5815091258msonormal0, #yiv5815091258 li.yiv5815091258msonormal0, #yiv5815091258 div.yiv5815091258msonormal0 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;color:black;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258BalloonTextChar {}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258EmailStyle21 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258EmailStyle22 {color:#20188C;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none none;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258EmailStyle23 {color:#993366;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258EmailStyle24 {color:#20188C;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none none;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258EmailStyle25 {color:#003300;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258EmailStyle26 {color:black;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258EmailStyle27 {color:black;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258EmailStyle28 {color:olive;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258EmailStyle29 {color:black;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258HTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:Consolas;color:black;}#yiv5815091258 span.yiv5815091258EmailStyle33 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5815091258 .yiv5815091258MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv5815091258 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv5815091258 div.yiv5815091258WordSection1 {}#yiv5815091258  Hi Albrecht: Greetings,    All of our thoughts and models are evolving. Nobody has a definite model, as yet, at least not me.    However, I strongly disagree with the de Broglie “Pilot Wave” concept. It demands extra unnecessary complexities. If this model is to be a REAL physical one,  then we would need a separate physical pilot wave, guiding the physical  “particle”. Built out of what? This pilot wave expands with time making the localization of the particle impossible after a very long time!    In the tension filed oscillating model, only the tension filed is the physical field; the localized oscillation represent the physical particle, emergent as a complex excited state of the field. The oscillator does not expand its shape with time. Otherwise free electrons and protons could not have  been tracked in long-path accelerators. Indeterminacy is limited only by our limited capability to assign the right initial conditions, as in the LHC or in other accelerators.  Nature does not suffer from “Uncertainty Principle”, like human math does!    The grand  MISTAKE of old times was the assumption that,  exp[iwt] = exp[i2.pi.ft] = exp.[i2.pi.(E/h)t], as in Schrodinger’s equation, was thought to represent a “plane wave”! Unfortunately, the expression represents any harmonic oscillator – it could be a pendulum, or an LCR circuit, and hence it can also represent a localized a harmonic oscillator of a tension filed, albeit complex in spatial structure. This is a conceptually simpler model without the need for any well-trained “Pilot”, while keeping Schrodinger very happy since “f” is the internal harmonic frequency of the new “model” particle! De Broglie would also have been happy with this model since he also struggled for the rest of his life to make it more realistic! We do have a more realistic concept; albeit, not the final, detailed model.    Chandra.       From: General[mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]On Behalf Of Albrecht
 Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 5:34 PM
 To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
 Subject: Re: [General] light and particles group       Hi Chip, hi all,

 regarding the ongoing confusion about the "wave structure" of particles I would like to remind you all of the approach of Louis de Broglie to this problem. In his view a particle is a bullet surrounded by a "pilot wave" which accompanies this bullet and guides it. - This approach was once strictly rejected by Heisenberg. But John Bell writes in his famous book "Speakable and Unspeakable in Quantum Mechanics" that he has investigated the discussion about the pilot wave and that he did not find any serious physical counter-arguments to it. According to him, Heisenberg's activities against it  were nothing else but bashing of de Broglie.

 I like this approach of de Broglie. I like it particularly because it fits seamlessly into my model of two orbiting massless sub-particles.

 Albrecht

 Am 24.01.2017 um 12:35 schrieb Chip Akins:  
 Hi Chandra   Yes. Momentum is measured as you indicated.   But if the electron is a circulating “wave structure”, and has the property of inertial mass, then momentum is likely an inherent part of the “wave”  itself.    As we have discovered, the inherent momentum of the confined wave can cause the property if inertial mass, which further clearly illustrates why E=mc^2.   But since space is massless, there must be a mechanism which creates momentum for these waves, which is different from the way longitudinal momentum is carried by a wave in a material medium made of particles of mass.   This more fundamental form of momentum must be created without using mass, since no mass is present in “empty” space.   So if this is how things work then we may have the most fundamental form of energy = differential displacement of space. And now perhaps we have the most fundamental form of momentum = delta Fc sine(theta) t = E/c. If this is true then delta Fc/Fc = pi, simply because that is the only form which yields the correct momentum of such a wave.   Chip     From: General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of Roychoudhuri, Chandra
 Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 1:10 PM
 To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion  <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
 Subject: Re: [General] light and particles group     Chip: I like your thinking approach.            Measurable “momentum” arises through energy exchange between scattering entities; specifically, when one of the entity possess the “inertial property”, we call particles. And, Newton correctly postulated that they tend to stay “inertial”, “until acted upon by a force” (an entity that  can “donate” energy to create kinetic motion). Chandra.     From: General [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of Chip Akins
 Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 9:28 AM
 To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'
 Subject: Re: [General] light and particles group     Hi Dr. Grahame Blackwell   What I was considering is trying to understand the mechanism for momentum in the propagation of energy in space. Whether that energy is in the form of light or confined in particles of matter. For if we can show exactly how it is that momentum is a fundamental feature of energy, as it moves in space, we then have specifically identified and understood the source for inertial mass.    This may help us refine our models.  I think that it will help us understand Planck’s quantization of action and its causes as well.  This research has already helped me understand how light can have both spin and orbital angular momentum, and it may well lead to a better grasp of other basic principles.   Other reasons for looking into this in detail, are to better understand the correct set of wave equations, and spin.  To understand the causes for what we observe.    I agree that a transfer of energy must implicitly also transfer momentum.  Momentum is a measureable result of energy.   But to me E=hf means that more energetic waves or particles are smaller. If that is correct then there is a cause. Probably the simplest explanation is that space has an inherent opposition to displacement, which creates this force Fc I have been discussing.  That is nice, simply because this force is also perfectly suited to cause confinement, not only of waves in space, but also of elementary fermions.    So if we can explore this possibility further, and create wave equations for waves which would be caused by the displacement and this opposing force, complete with momentum and all the other measurables, then we may have foundations upon which we can model everything.   I do not think that wave interference is sufficient to cause confinement. I have studied waves in great detail and still find that more than self-interference is required for confinement of waves into soliton (circularly or spherically confined) solutions. So for me, it seems that this equal and opposite reaction of space to the displacement caused by energy is the only logical path to explore.   It is my hope (and intuition) that this path will lead to understanding the mass formation thresholds for electrons so that we might know why the  electron’s rest mass is the specific value we measure.     Chip     From: General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of Dr Grahame Blackwell
 Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 5:40 PM
 To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
 Subject: Re: [General] light and particles group      Hi Chip,       I got a working copy, thanks.       I see that of course you're going into far more intricate details mathematically than I was looking at.  In this case, it seems to me, the question becomes: "How is it that a photon travels through space?".  As I've said, once that's tied down the fact that it carries momentum follows as a natural consequence.   (To some extent it depends on how one defines momentum.)       Thanks again,   Grahame  
  ----- Original Message -----    From: Chip Akins     To:  'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'    Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 10:54 PM   Subject: Re: [General] light and particles group      Once more.   Chip         

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