[General] STR twin Paradox

Wed Jun 28 17:50:03 PDT 2017

Chandra:

I've often wondered about the plasma effect and how it could have been 
calculated accurately enough by

However on reading it is not clear to me that he discounts all 
gravitational light bending effects or simply in the plasma region

I remember working on the Phase I GPS system at General Dynamics and 
wondering how they could ever estimate the plasma efect of a varying 
ionosphere but now the accuracies are down to a few meters so they must 
have done it

Has anyone looked at ref 10 Lebach    is this the same Shapiro of the 
Shipiro Micro-wave speed of light measurement.

THat light speed is effected by gravity is difficult to discount, 
however I always wonder if we are talking apples and oranges
there is phase velocity and there is group velocity and they are different
I think it is phase that produces the bending , could Dowdey be 
calcuating the ionosphering effect for group velocity and thereby getr 
the same answer

Wolf

Dr. Wolfgang Baner
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com

On 6/26/2017 9:51 AM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra wrote:
>
> Grahame and the rest of the colleagues:
>
> Please, have a look at the attached paper by a retired NASA scientist, 
> who firmly believes that the bending of light by stars is due to the 
> refractive index-gradient produced by the plasma of the stars, not by 
> its gravity.
>
> I am just “stirring up the pot” J.
>
> Chandra.
>
> *From:*General 
> [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]*On 
> Behalf Of *Dr Grahame Blackwell
> *Sent:* Monday, June 26, 2017 11:27 AM
> *To:* Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion 
> <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [General] STR twin Paradox
>
> Hi Chip (et al.),
>
> I've sent you the paper in question twice: once 25 Aug '16 in response 
> to your posting of the same date, and once specifically in response to 
> your request for same on 23rd April '17.  Let me know if you can't 
> find either one of these and I can send it again.
>
> With regard to refraction of light by gravitational fields*, this 
> follows directly from slowing of electromagnetic waves by such fields 
> (a commonsense consideration akin to swimming through a dense liquid - 
> but this is an interference effect); the bending is directly analogous 
> to causing a vehicle to turn by rotating the wheels on one side slower 
> than those on the other (the same effect also causes climbing plants 
> to curl around their supports, rate of growth being inhibited on the 
> side that's touching something).
>
> * Actually by the GRADIENT in such a field.
>
> Best,
>
> Grahame
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>
>     *From:*Chip Akins <mailto:chipakins at gmail.com>
>
>     *To:*'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'
>     <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>
>     *Sent:*Monday, June 26, 2017 2:13 PM
>
>     *Subject:*Re: [General] STR twin Paradox
>
>     Hi Grahame
>
>     Question. Regarding your paper on gravity.
>
>     If the attractive force between unlike charges is slightly larger
>     than the repulsive force between like charges, how do we explain
>     the refraction of light by gravitational fields?
>
>     Do you have a copy of this paper you can share?
>
>     Chip
>
>     *From:*General
>     [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
>     *On Behalf Of *Dr Grahame Blackwell
>     *Sent:* Sunday, June 25, 2017 5:52 PM
>     *To:* Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
>     <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>     <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>>
>     *Subject:* Re: [General] STR twin Paradox
>
>     Al et al.,
>
>     "I'm nervous about bringing gravity in.  Really what it is, is
>     still too mysterious.  Even for AE, it is just a pregiven
>     phenomena, his only goal was to quantify it.  But, perhaps it's an
>     E&M residue resulting from the disparity in mass between + and -
>     charge carriers."
>
>     I'd refer you once again to my paper 'Cosmic System Dynamics: A
>     Cyberneticist's Perspective on Gravitation' (Kybernetes Vol 40
>     issue 9/10, Nov 2011, pp 1319-1330). In this I show in some detail
>     how the phenomenon referred to as 'gravitation' can be fully
>     explained in every detail by simply recognising that attractive
>     forces between opposite charges and repelling forces between like
>     charges are NOT precisely equal (for unit charges in each case). 
>     A tiny difference between these two effects (for which there is NO
>     scientific reason why they should be identical) - attraction being
>     infinitesimally greater than repulsion - gives rise to an overall
>     attraction between 'ponderable masses' precisely in accordance
>     with every recorded observation.  This explanation could well also
>     shed new light on those effects attributed to 'dark matter' and
>     'dark energy' - another couple of what could well be regarded as
>     'fiddle factors' comparable to Einstein's 'cosmological
>     constant'.  Like Einstein's CC they could, rather, point to a
>     feature of the cosmos that we have overlooked or wrongly assumed.
>
>     If one looks at it from this very simple perspective, gravitation
>     is far from being mysterious - it's simply a 2nd-order effect of
>     'electrostatic' attraction/repulsion (which is itself an artefact
>     of electromagnetic wave interference between non-linear
>     configurations of such waves, i.e. particles of matter) -
>     gravitation, as another separate 'force' in its own right, doesn't
>     actually exist.
>
>     Grahame
>
>         ----- Original Message -----
>
>         *From:*af.kracklauer at web.de <mailto:af.kracklauer at web.de>
>
>         *To:*general at lists...natureoflightandparticles.org
>         <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>
>         *Cc:*general at lists...natureoflightandparticles.org
>         <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>
>         *Sent:*Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:41 PM
>
>         *Subject:*Re: [General] STR twin Paradox
>
>         While I am not completely confident that I fully understand
>         the objections, perhaps they have to do with the following
>         point.  Ontological chages occure at (or to) the source of E&M
>         interaction. Perspective changes happen to (or at) the sink of
>         E&M interaction---not just sentient, passive observers.  The
>         actual, real efffect from the source on a sink is physcially
>         altered by the relative (deleayed) position and motion of the
>         source.  For one thing, it is Gaussian diminished (i.e.,
>         reduced by 1/r**2).  In this sense, time-dilation,
>         space-contraction are real effects (but only as far as the
>         sink is concerned!).  Sentient observers, such as those
>         emphasized by Wolf, are no more that a collection of E&M
>         sinks.  So, the "obesrver" is taken into account in this
>         formulation.
>
>         I'm nervious about bringing gravity in.  Really what it is, is
>         still too mysterious.  Even for AE, it is just a pregiven
>         phenomena, his only goal was to quantify it.  But, perhaps
>         it"s an E&M residue resulting from the disparity in mass
>         between + and - charge carriers.  Who knows???  For what it's
>         worth!  ---Al
>
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>
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