[General] What holds mass and charge together

[Wolfgang Baer]

Yes of course if you agree that the world is made of particles and that 
all identified "properties" must be attached to their center points then 
you would dismiss any other possibility

But we are now talking not about what is "known truth" but whether some 
of those known truths are in fact the best way to interpret our 
observable experiences. There are quite obviously many situations where 
the charge centers move relative to the mass when looking at large 
aggregation just consider a dipole antenna obviously large charges move 
up and down but the mass center stays pretty well stable.

Bohr and most nuclear physics id based upon the assumption that all 
properties are attached to point particles is this correct?

Scattering experiments have shown the shape of elemetary particles are 
not all perfect spheres.

We ave two major force categories dominating the macroscopic world 
electricity-magnetism and gravity-inertia each domain has a set of well 
developed descriptive equations , but the simple connection between the 
two is a straight forward guess.

                 The Lorenz force Fl is simply equated to the 
acceleration     Fl = ma but we never measure the position of a mass we 
always measure the position of a charge configuration . We cannot see or 
feel a mass all we see and feel is the electric coulomb repulsion 
between the surface electrons of our hand and the surface electrons of 
the objects we hold.

There the mystery starts, you can paper over it with a fiat, or you can 
ask why?

You can apply the rules we have discovered to work in the past or you 
can look for new discoveries in the future

What group  do you want to belong to?

best wishes

The question puzzling me on the Bohr atom case is not that Somerfeld's 
adjustments can occur, but if there are adjustments why do they not 
apply to shift the lines all together from the single theoretical 
prediction, why is there a hyperfine structure in the spectral lines?

Wolf


Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com

On 9/13/2017 6:54 AM, Andrew Meulenberg wrote:
> I agree with Grahame. Separating charge and mass is like separating 
> electricity and magnetism.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Dr Grahame Blackwell 
> <grahame at starweave.com <mailto:grahame at starweave.com>> wrote:
>
>     Wolf (et al.),
>     (diagrams dropped, with chain of other previous emails.)
>     In my view there is absolutely no issue as to what holds mass and
>     charge together - neither is an object, to be 'held' to anything
>     else, they are both effects.  There seems little doubt that both
>     of those effects are artefacts of the fundamental content of a
>     massive charged particle - namely its formative energy.
>     It's very simply shown that if a particle is moving then its
>     energy content must increase in exactly the way described (without
>     explanation) in SR - this is fully apparent from the Relativistic
>     Energy-Momentum Relation; this is inertial mass, the
>     requirement for that additional energy to maintain the structural
>     integrity of the particle.  Likewise it's totally apparent from
>     interference effects demonstrated in respect of massive particles
>     that charge also must be an artefact of that formative energy.  So
>     the very concept that they could possibly be separated, and so
>     need holding together, makes absolutely no sense to me.  I Kant
>     see the point of even discussing it! (Sorry, that pun may not
>     translate very well!)
>     [As a point of detail, that energy is also its gravitational mass,
>     for other reasons arising directly from that energy.]
>     Regards,
>     Grahame
>
>         ----- Original Message -----
>         *From:* Wolfgang Baer <mailto:wolf at nascentinc.com>
>         *To:* Albrecht Giese <mailto:phys at a-giese.de> ; Nature of
>         Light and Particles - General Discussion
>         <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>         *Sent:* Wednesday, September 13, 2017 8:35 AM
>         *Subject:* [General] What holds mass and charge together
>
>         Chandra and Albrecht:
>
>         I fully agree with the Plato's shadow analogy and the
>         realization that we have been building a physics that explains
>         the shadows  not the reality is very clear. But that involves
>         giving up the notion of a fixed objective reality and moving
>         toward a n acknowledgement of a Kantian unknowable about which
>         we make models that express our best guess and judge them
>         based on success.
>
>         It involves returning to simple examples and testing the logic
>         of our assumptions. Toward this end I have returned to the old
>         simple experimants the utilize the concept of mass and charge
>         as the most understandable properties of matter. One of the
>         central assumptions in physics is that of a point particle
>         which places all properties of the particle and specifically
>         the source and sink of mass and charge centers at a co-located
>         point.
>
>         So I ask what holds charge and mass together? what kind of
>         physics would we have if there were a force Fcm and Fmc
>         between charge and mass and mass and charge.
>
>
>
>         	
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of
>     Light and Particles General Discussion List at mules333 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:mules333 at gmail.com>
>     <a
>     href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1
>     <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1>">
>     Click here to unsubscribe
>     </a>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at Wolf at nascentinc.com
> <a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">
> Click here to unsubscribe
> </a>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/pipermail/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/attachments/20170913/f30f86b3/attachment.htm>